179: How Eleusis Helps Feed Security and Builds Rancher Resilience During Droughts with Joaquin Gonzalez

[: 00:00:00

Yeah. Thank you Harry, from the invitation. Happy to

be here.

So remind me again how we got connected. I think you mentioned you had a conversation with my partner supper. Uh.

Yes, I did. Uh, I've been reading our, I Grow News for a long time. Um. And, uh, I got to know separate because of it. I read the author of, of these different articles with my father and I was like, yeah, let's, let's connect with this guy. And I sent an invitation on LinkedIn. We connect. Um, he was in Dubai, so we was, it was a little bit hard to, uh, synchronize our calendars, but, but very good guy.

Yeah, I like him a lot.

So, how far back can you trace your, uh, experience with being involved in, in some way or another? In, in, in like agriculture?

so, um, my background is in [: 00:01:00

How we feed the cattle, um, and of horses and different animals. Right. And, um, I, I studied that in Chile. Um, and I was always like looking for some innovations. Like I'm, I'm a, I'm an agriculture as a professional, but I'm a inter entrepreneur. Um, from, from the heart, you know.

What, what got you into agriculture to, why did you decide to study that?

So we as a family, we had a ranch, uh, close to

Santiago, uh, that I spent most of my life over

of time like riding horses, [: 00:02:00

Was there an expectation growing up in families and based on conversations I've had with previous founders who grew up either on a farm or on a ranch, is there an expectation? That you'll carry on the legacy of the family. I don't know if it was a, it was a business or, or just a ranch. But do you, do you hear that a lot or is that, is that expected?

It was, um, no, I mean, I'm the third of seven

siblings. Um, most of 'em are engineers. Um, my dad is an engineer and this was like a, like a family ranch, um, for pleasure and for business as

that really motivate me, um, [: 00:03:00

got into the world. Um, I did some show jumping, I won a couple of championships over there. But, uh, at the end, uh, you have to have courses, you have to have a trainer and all this stuff.

lege, actually, I pick it up [: 00:04:00

And again, same story like it was. Everything about like having, having a horse and having a train with feed and all this stuff that gets, uh, complicated over time. So, but uh, that is something that I have in, in my heart. At some point I will do it for sure.

It's, it is everyone that I've spoken to and I've had conversations with people who have been around horses since they were little, who've raised horses, they all say the same thing. Like, you develop this bond with your horse, that's incredibly special. They're so smart, they're so intelligent, and when you get to know them, they get to know you and you, the symbiosis that happens between you and the horse.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I was like, as I said, like completely obsessed with them. At some point I was like making drawings with, of horses, um, and, and figure it out, like how they fit them on, how, uh, what is the best way to keep them taking care of

'em, [: 00:05:00

stuff. 'cause it, it really helps to be in touch with, with animals in general. But horses, it has something special.

And had, did you see, you know, having raised horses from, from such a long time, how much things have changed with advances and what horses are fed? You know, obviously we're gonna get into the fodder, but I imagine so much has changed since you were a boy.

nt these courses that. Um, I [: 00:06:00

It's something that you can solve it right

away. Yeah. Adding fodder to their diet. It acts like a, as a lubricant of, of the just digestion track and the gut health. It's much better. So you avoid these colleagues in them

So

So was your experience with Eko is, was that the first experience with working directly with fodder?

ere was a big drought in the [: 00:07:00

country. Big drought, like big mess, like a lot of animals were dying because of it. Um, like animals, were moving to the south, in the south of Chile, we have a lot of water, a lot of land, a lot of hay. Um, so, so it was up to the point that the government got involved. They were moving water around. They were. Uh, moving animals to one side, to another, to to, to make them survive. And a lot of ranchers were forced to call up their herds as well. And like being out of college, just graduated, I was like, how, how we can solve this issue?

um, get in a way of, of the [: 00:08:00

And see, because in Chile we didn't have any hydroponic fiber systems there. So I imported my first equipment, and that's how like ECO started and I partnered with, uh, with my ex partner and, um, this guy was the commercial side and was like the commer, the more technical side of it. Um, so we imported our first equipment from China.

ith that experience, give me [: 00:09:00

And with that I designed and formulated my own designs into containers, inside containers. Um, this container, uh, at some point when I got my first commercial design, it was, um, it was a container that you open both sides of the container. And in Chile we don't have like these extreme temperatures like here, like everything outside.

Would freeze, you know? Yeah. We, so I had all the equipment to control the environment inside the container. I had it outside, same with the water tank, the different things. Um, and I opened one door. So you see it and you have one hole in the middle. And you see these racks, basically our like eight shelves.

other side of the container. [: 00:10:00

But then, you know, over time you figured out that you have a lot of issues with father, especially with mold. Like it's something very hard to, to, um, avoid because you have so many factors that happen. Uh, like control the humidity, the temperature, the airflow, the sea, what is the seed supply. Um, so you have to follow so many things.

And at the end, the mold was something that, um, that really affected our, our project there.

Is that something that you just had to figure out on your As? As it happened? There was no guidance. There was nothing probably you could read online at the time.

Yeah, there's a bunch of [: 00:11:00

But at some point, if you don't control the environment very well and very precisely is, um, it's something that that mold will happen and we will appear anyways. So. Um, we manufacture one and then we put together a manufacturer in Santiago. Uh, so I was close, uh, I was closer to my house and then I honestly, like, I signed a contract with a, with a group that has some horses over there.

h, mold and we'll, you know, [: 00:12:00

And then, um, I worked in, uh, I, uh, I was like, okay, this is, this is something I really dream about. Like, let's, let's do the potter somewhere else. And then I worked for two different companies. I, I, uh, made another company too with another partner. Nothing related to agriculture. But, um, then I had the opportunity to move to the us Um, and I was looking always like, in the back of my mind was like, this is something that I, I had to fix, you know?

rganizations in, in the act. [: 00:13:00

And then they had a mushroom farm. And then they hired me to put together the fodder system, the hydroponic fodder farm. Um. And I had a very good experience with them. Um, they were like super open. And when I met the CEO went to the farms. I got into the, one of the farms and I saw all these like different technology of how to control the environment.

And so inside this containers, I was like, yes, I'm, I'm pretty sure that with this I can fix the

put it over the table and we [: 00:14:00

And um, I put it to work and then mold again. It's like, oh, how this is happening. And then over time I fix it. I figure it out, the temperature, water irrigation, uh, water temperature, because sometimes you get super cold water, super hot water in Colorado and that. We fixed all that stuff. Iation, I did. So like the fine tuning and at the end, after I would say like a couple months, I was able to say that it's a mold free guarantee farm. Which, uh, which I'm very proud

now.

iner farm for, um, mushrooms [: 00:15:00

What, what are the things you need to think about differently?

Um, that's a good question. Uh, the main difference, I would say it's more about. The layout, definitely the layout of how to, well, the mushrooms, let's, let's keep mushrooms aside because that, that is another animal. But in the, in the hydroponic, uh, world, the vertical farm, it's, um, it's, it's same vertical is, it's a totally different layout, so different design.

What I put together was like layers of trays, so hole in the middle and tray seven shelves. Where I figured it out that one of the best approaches to produce fodder is with a subrogation system. So the misting systems in general, they generate a lot of humidity. And humidity is something that you have to fight all the time in order to prevent the mold issues.

the subrogation it's is, is [: 00:16:00

Um, the vertical farming with leafy greens, you need nutrients in fodder. You don't need any nutrients at all. That is something that I learned as well there. Because I was trying to put some nutrients, maybe you can like, uh, increase the protein on the FO or something like that. But it is not like, since the plant is so young in seven day cycle process, that they're not able to pick up any nutrients from the water at all.

eeds. And you have to have a [: 00:17:00

Um, and that is very important to follow all the instructions of the SOPs inside the systems to make it work. Um.

curious, Joaquin, when you, when you try to tackle a problem like that, coming from an engineering background, I, I imagine as an. Engineer, you're always thinking of like solutions and how to fix problems, and it's just the way that your mind works. Where, where do you draw your inspiration from when it comes to like tackling problems like this?

Do you need to go for like long walks with no interruptions or like where, where do you, where do you get your inspiration from?

some research. I mean, with, [: 00:18:00

You try another. So that is. Uh, and you have to learn from all those errors in order to not repeat them, of course. But, um, but that is one thing I'm, I'm being like, disciplined in those, um, in those trial and error because if you lose something, you might repeat something else that you are, it's, it's making the problem.

So you have to do like trial and error, like very, um, with a good methodology and, and then you, you can solve all these issues.

Where did you learn that discipline from? Or who or who did you learn that discipline from?

ted, I would say, uh, a lot. [: 00:19:00

dad. Um, my, my dad is an engineer. He always like me inventing stuff, like trying to figure it out, like trying to fix stuff at the house, at the ranch, different things. So. He was like, if there's a problem, we have to solve it.

He's like, start drawing stuff. And uh, yeah, there's a tool here. So he loves to go like to Home Depot and see all the stuff, the different things that are there, like they can use for irrigation, um, and, and different things. So that is, uh, basically my, my, uh, I think that my bigger inspiration.

It's, I'm, I'm a child of the eighties, so, uh, sometimes people call that the MacGyver approach.

Yeah. Yeah. Same here. Same here,

And so, uh, so obviously, you know, when you see problems like that, you have to figure, you figure out the best solution for the, for the problem, right?

right? [: 00:20:00

Okay. the thing. And so talk about the transition from, uh, farm Box to Elis, you know, how, how that happened.

Yeah. So, um, last year working for Farm Box, um, there was, I, I worked with so many, so many clients, so many people. Um, like I did some trials with the Denver Zoo, for instance. You know, that they were trying out the fodder, doing all these lab analysis and different things. We were feeding their giraffes and, and, and multiple animals over there.

Um, and, and the,

iraffe fodder different, you [: 00:21:00

no, it's, it's the same product. It's the same product. So fodder is something that you made out of any kind of grain, honestly. But the best grain for it is, uh, barley. So barley is, is the best because it sprouts faster than any other grain. Um, and also it has the, this ability to generate, you know, the, the protein content of it, it has to be low in order to sprout faster because low protein means that it can be hydrated very fast, and that is sprout

faster. Right? Um, same with wheat. Wheat works very well as well. Other grains are, are, um, typically are lighter than these other grains, so we typically use barley and, and for barley, uh, for all the animals that we have had, uh, barley is the one that we have given, given them.

e there different strains of [: 00:22:00

there, yeah. There are multiple, uh, species, or not species, but varieties, right. Um, the variety that it works best for fodder. Um, it's the variety that comes to malting companies. Um, for the same reason. Because if you are like working with. This type of grain that, that goes to molting and goes to beer.

At the end of the day, it's a, it's a seed that needs to be low in, in protein. If you're, if you're using other type of seeds like seeds that goes to feeding animals with it, you know, seed that goes to pastures and stuff like that is a, is a really different seed because it has, it's more of a system. It's, it's hard to break it.

panies and malting suppliers [: 00:23:00

sure.

And so, yeah, you were talking about the transition, uh, to, uh, E.

So, yeah, so I was looking at this, uh, different, sorry, I went to, to the, to different trials that we did. But, um, so I was, the last year I was trying to obviously commercialize this, this container and there's a, there's a lot of interest. Out there to, to get farther to feed your animals with it, you know, because of the sustainability metrics, because of so many things.

So, so many benefits on the nutrition, the nutritional side. So many things. So a lot of people are very interested. But the containerized solution, it's, it's for some of 'em, you know, for the industry, the container solution that we put together, uh, was able to produce 850 pounds a day, which. Basically, if you look at the industry, you can feed 30 cow,

[: 00:24:00

so that's 850 pounds per container.

yeah. So I was talking to, uh, many renters that they have like 200, uh, head of cattle. So for that you need like eight containers. So putting one container next to another at some point doesn't make sense. Maybe two. It's okay. Three, you. Think about it, you know, because it's all, every container has their own system, their own, uh, uh, way of farming and all this stuff.

ile and I visited it, uh, in [: 00:25:00

Uh, and I met the guy that represent El in Chile. So I went to this facility and I found it like amazing.

Okay.

It was like, it was like the go to technology that you want to, we want to have. But at, at that point I was thinking like in little, I was thinking in something that we can move around in modular farms, which is, okay, so modular farms are, are great, but it's not for everybody, you know?

cows to: 1500

able price for the amount of [: 00:26:00

And on January this year I started, uh, with, with OSI Feed, which is a branch of Osis International. Um, and we are trying to commercialize this in, in the state.

What was the biggest, uh, there's probably several things when you, when you say you start moving to industrial level. Mc fodder systems, but just what, what are some of the, the basics that, that, uh, to help the listener understand like how these systems work? Like when you're moving from a container, you know, you said it was cost prohibitive and, and maybe just like farm prohibitive to have eight containers on the farm.

What do you get now with a system like Luc?

[: 00:27:00

om with, with racks and each [: 00:28:00

You don't, you don't need to build it from scratch. Besides that, the workflow of it, it's. It's great because it's, it's something that you build, you know, a, a big, it could be a big facility. I mean, obviously we offer system from 500 pounds a day to the biggest one that we're coding right now for a project in Georgia, it's gonna be 400 tons at a system.

're working with this group, [: 00:29:00

Um, now. Obviously when, when you get a system that is, let's call it like 5,000 pounds a day system, you have a warehouse where it's not too big, could be around a thousand square feet, um, that the workflow inside is very cool because you have space. Um, how it works is basically there are eight shelves on each rack.

And the cool thing about this particular valve that they have. Is that everything works under like gravity, so the water doesn't need any, like, you don't need a pressurized, um, uh, system or pressurized connections to each rack. It's just, it just gravity that's putting water on the top of it, and it's like flooding shelves by shelf.

We're [: 00:30:00

So this tray you have to harvest manually. Right. And then you, when you harvest it, you put it upside down, you pass it through this tray washing machine, and it avoids a lot of time working on the washing. And you don't need the brush or something like this, just this machine. Um, and just for you to make an idea, that project will be, uh, for 5,000, will be a hundred, 140,000 bucks,

Okay.

like

here in the us. It's pretty [: 00:31:00

Provide the system at scale as well.

What's been the response to maybe customers that you've spoken with or people you've spoken with, or farmers you've spoken with in the past when you only had the opportunity to talk about a container system? Now you're having conversations about the elusive feed system. Is there a better fit now? And, and you can have much more informed conversations because the Luc feed is, is exactly what they need.

elf, like the final product, [: 00:32:00

Um. That I can compare all these different, like system, how they produce it, how they manage it, how they, uh, control the environment and stuff like that. Um, and I can definitely have a nice conversation about, you know, okay, osis, what it brings to you, unbreakable parts, reliable system. Um, a system that doesn't break, that's, uh, that, that's, that's just a lot.

in engineers and stuff like [: 00:33:00

Um, they will land in a ranch. So the skilled labor of ranch is not always like the very high skilled labor. You know, you don't have to have an engineer to

run it. You need robust, you know, skilled labor. And these systems are very, uh, thoughtful on that, in that sense. You know, we are, we develop this system that are very didactic screens are very didactic.

So something is, doesn't, doesn't work or, or something is not running. It has just a cross on top of it. So you see the image of the fan, for instance, like with a

cross on top of it. Um, so this, that is a big difference too. Mm-hmm.

obviously have a lot of, um, [: 00:34:00

Yeah, good question. I mean, that is one of, uh, our main approaches I would say, like when, when we are talking to people and, and renters. Again, we are talking with the 30, because we have been in the industry for 40 years, so we have over 400 installations out there. Some of them are running, some of them they're not because of multiple things could happen in the ranch, but for the majority, they have very good experience applying fodder into the different diets.

on the industry, some people [: 00:35:00

Um, I was, and it was built along with, uh, energy production engines. So we, they were using that heat to heat up their greenhouse where they put this spotter on, on the ground. Um. There's so many experience out there, um, and the reaction of the animals, the improving infertility, for instance, in in cows and dairy

Oh.

hese things are experiences, [: 00:36:00

Now, that is the other challenge too, like talk to these people and they have been producing feed, I mean producing feed and, and feed animals for generations in a way that whenever you're presenting a new technology. It's hard, like that traditional mindset, it's very hard to break, you know? It's like, um, they, they are very, you know, not stubborn, but it's like they,

They're very set, set in their ways.

t to try new things. Mm-hmm. [: 00:37:00

What's what, what, what's the biggest, um. Education piece for them if they're, like you said, if they're, they're used to feeding cattle the tradition, the traditional way, you have to explain the benefits of hydroponic fodder to them or, or like you said, some of the benefits that they may not even be aware of.

Yeah. Um, most of it is like. This is not rocket science. Again, it's, it's, it's a manual thing. You can have a fully automated system, but it's something that you can train on and be comfortable with a system. Then how to apply the fodder so we can, with, with, with some nutritionist to back us up that people that have been working with fodder for a long time and those nutritionists, they know how to apply fodder, how to formulate the diets to in order to work.

u know, it's, it's a machine [: 00:38:00

So. Um, that, that is one of the key points here, like feed security. It's something that we, they really like, they really want, because they struggle with it. Like sometimes they're like COVID and, and the, the hay spikes up, you know, um, the, OR, or different like natural disaster or some, somehow you're born full of hay.

It's gone. Whenever you're, you have this system, system, you can rely on this consistency on this, um, nutrition that you will have every single day.

Mm-hmm.

ould be like an ideal client [: 00:39:00

I would say, I would say like three. Well, hold on a sec, Harry, this is the last, you can cut that part if you want.

I'll cut that. Don't worry.

Um, yes.

Alright. Who can benefit from, who benefit the most? Well, people that are located in drought areas, you know, people that are. Struggling with water. You know, there's some incentives out there of the government, like retiring wells, so they will pay you to retire a well because the water is a critical

issue, you know, um, critical issue.

e, especially in the Western [: 00:40:00

It rained in April and just recently, like last

week, um, they got a little bit of rain and that was it. So. Those places are looking a lot for these type of technologies in order to reduce the amount of water they use for their crops. With the fodder system, we use like 95% less water than traditional farming, so we're here to help 'em for sure.

So, so, uh, what's a, what's a typical day for you look like?

A typical day, well, [: 00:41:00

So it's very. Very com it was very convenient to move here. Um, taking care of the marketing, taking care of the pr, you know, same way that I, I, I knew like Sper, same thing. Like, hey, the author, okay, let's, let's, let's set this up. Um, so typically start with, with, uh, exercise and then taking care of everything.

taking care of the bo of your body and mind first is probably important.

Yeah, yeah, [: 00:42:00

It seems like you're wearing a lot of different hats. Uh, what's a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

Um, oh man, that's tough. Um, if I want to continue doing this, that is one, one thing, like, as an entrepreneur, I'm telling you like, it's, it's, uh, it's a day to day back back, um, uh, back to back day to like consistency, like. You're thinking about your, like your, your, is, is your project going? Is your project going somewhere else?

I have two girls now to take care of. Like, this is, this is something that I can, I need to keep pushing, keep pushing. And, and, and honestly, after all this time working on this, um, with the discipline and the perseverance of, uh, you know, keep, keep pushing because you really believe that this is something that can change.

bit the livestock industry, [: 00:43:00

Yeah. And I can definitely relate as an entrepreneur. Like, it, it, it doesn't ever turn off. So, you know, you wake up, you wake up in the morning and you're already thinking about the six things you gotta do that day, and you just have to prioritize. I've been making more of an effort to make sure the first thing I do is like some sort of meditation or some sort of like workout, because if not the day just gets away from you.

That's a

key. That's a key. And, and I'm a, I'm a father too, so I have to take care of these girls. Um, and that, uh, filled my heart for sure.

the, the biggest, uh, shift [: 00:44:00

What was

that,

what, what's been the biggest, uh, sh change for you or, or, or the biggest, uh, thing you discovered from moving to Austin, Texas?

Well, I moved, honestly, I moved like a month ago, so it's, it's, everything's so new now. I miss the mountains like a lot. I was talking to my wife, like the mountains we're in Boulder, so we're like right there, you know, you can see the mountains every single day. And now, uh, this is a little bit flat, you know, we have hills here, which is, which is awesome.

Something that I really like. It's everything is green, like all the trees and stuff. Neighborhoods are so nice. Um, but I move, I think in the right time because it's October. Uh, I moved in October last, um, at the end of October. So the temperatures are pretty, pretty nice now. Um, I'm a little bit concerned about summer,

but, but we'll see.[: 00:45:00

Uh, we're trying to explore out there. Uh, I really like the river passing through Austin. It's a, it is a cold city. It's a, it has a lot of life. Uh, and it's a big city. I didn't know it's 2 million people here. Um, so it's, it's, it's great. Um, so far the. Tex-Mex is good. Um, barbecue is good. Um, yeah.

What's the biggest thing you miss about Chile?

Well, obviously

family, um, that is one of the, one of the things that I, at some point I would definitely, uh, come back to Chi. We have a lot of stuff to do here first, but I'll definitely, uh, want to go back because, uh, since I've been, I was part of a big family. Um, my parents, they have a lot of siblings as well, so I have like dozens of cousins on each side.

ant to give my kids like the [: 00:46:00

Wow.

so. So that is something that we, we need to, obviously, we try to go to Chile as much as possible so they can be with the costumes and everything, but that is something that we miss a lot.

So as we wrap up here, Joaquin, um. I know you've been trying to make an effort, you connected with Sper and, and, and I don't know how, how active you are in going to conferences, but have you been able to network with other people in the industry, other people in the indoor farming industry? Um, I'm, I'm curious what your experience has been like there.

compliment vertical farming [: 00:47:00

I don't know if you have heard about them. They're very cool and the system's really cool because we wanted, we are looking at some projects to put some fodder systems to work. Along with a vertical farm and on an industrial way as well. Then a mushroom systems and a rooted crop system. So that is our partner to develop those projects.

So those guys are pretty cool. And we are in the same industry, so we share a lot of things. Uh, and they can go at scale too. So they have recently, they have redesigned part of this walls that they build. Uh, so they can fill out like big warehouses, 12 these walls, and it could, it could work very nice, um, with those guys.

, Dubai and the Middle East. [: 00:48:00

We have a project that I'm looking over there because not I, I try to get my most of my time here in the US but whenever we have clients like overseas, we take them because they, they're looking for these solutions. Uh, so in Jordan, in Qatar, I have another one over there. Um, but overall I. Like to connect with, with all these, uh, different personalities in the, in the industry.

icated systems that actually [: 00:49:00

Yeah, I think that's very important. And so, uh, I appreciate you coming on connecting with us. If you need connections in Dubai, SPER in Dubai, I can obvi, he can obviously help you make some introductions for people there. If that's something that's needed, uh, or you, you see an opportunity there, definitely let us know.

Um, it's been interesting to, to, if you think back and look back at your journey, how you started on a farm, how you, your experience with horses in this environment working on a wrench and. But then tied into your engineering background and your, this obvious drive, this natural curiosity that, that I've, I've sort of, kind of, uh, interpreted from this conversation.

ght place at the right time. [: 00:50:00

Yeah, you're exactly right. Um. And that is our, that is is part of my mission too, I guess, uh, with alo, like bring, bring feed security to all ranchers around, um, not only the US Canada as well, um, but North America in general and, and the world. You know, that's my, that's what's really motivates me. Um, and, um, yeah, it, it get independent of the climate and, and be sustainable.

And it's so interesting 'cause a lot of people in these, we have conversations here about food security, but if people understand where their food comes from, and a lot of it comes from like the cattle, you probably need feed security before you get the food security.

Yeah,

in hand.

he, the renters are related. [: 00:51:00

That's very important. 'cause people that what they know how, what they know that they do, it's, it's, it's wrenching. It's, uh, raising cattle, raising, uh, you know, horses. And if they all of a sudden got struck by a drought or, or something. The business is gone and this is a tool to fix that. So definitely, um, reach out to me, uh, anytime.

pefully that we can fit. Uh. [: 00:52:00

anybody.

Yeah, and we'll make sure those links are in the show notes and Lucius is spelled E-L-E-U-S-I-S v.com. I'll have that link and I'll have your LinkedIn, uh, and we'll put those in the show notes, make sure people can get in contact with you. Thanks again for your time, Quin. I really appreciate and enjoyed this conversation.

Yeah, enjoyed a lot. Thank you

so much, Harry. Appreciate it.