S11E148 Floris Berghout/Viemose DGS - From Greenhouses to Global Impact - Viemose’s Journey

Harry Duran 0:00 - 0:04:

So, Flores Burkhardt, CEO of vmos, thank you so much for joining me on the vertical farming podcast.

Floris Berghout 0:05 - 0:06:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Harry Duran 0:07 - 0:15:

So obviously you've started this podcast. We've been able to speak to people from all over the world. Where are you calling in or where's home for you now?

Floris Berghout 0:15 - 0:21:

I'm in the Netherlands in a small town called Bergerais, just above Rotterdam.

Harry Duran 0:21 - 0:24:

Okay. Were you born and raised there?

Floris Berghout 0:24 - 0:25:

I am, yeah.

Harry Duran 0:26 - 0:28:

That's great. What was life like growing up there?

Floris Berghout 0:29 - 0:36:

Actually, I grew up in a city center of Rotterdam and it was quite, quite nice. So I'm a little bit city boy in a way.

Harry Duran 0:36 - 0:37:

Yeah.

Floris Berghout

0:37 - 0:49:

But yeah, no problems. I mean, yeah, mild climate, A lot of facilities in the Netherlands. Cheese, wooden shoes, whatever. Tulips, cannabis. So you, you know how it goes.

Harry Duran 0:50 - 0:51:

All the cliches are accurate then?

Floris Berghout 0:52 - 0:53:

Exactly, exactly.

Harry Duran 0:53 - 1:02:

What was your earliest memory of, like, having a connection to, like, food that you grow or growing food? What comes to mind for you?

Floris Berghout 1:03 - 1:32:

Well, when I was younger, I went on vacation. We go to France a lot. In a little town, there was a vacation house with only 100 people living there. And also agriculture around there. And that taught me a lot about where food come from. And I mean that dairy is not something that has been produced in the factory in a way. Chocolate milk is not from brown cows, but. So that's one of my earliest memories, in a sense. Yeah. But before that time in Rotten center, there's no agriculture going on whatsoever. So. Yeah.

Harry Duran 1:33 - 1:47:

Talk a little bit about your background. You've had a pretty wide range of positions in your previous companies. So I'm just curious, not the entire cv, but a little bit of your background and we'll get into what you're doing now. Current day.

Floris Berghout 1:47 - 2:22:

Yeah. Good. Actually, I stumbled upon horticulture by chance. A friend of mine, where I was training with, asked me, hey, are you looking for a job? And I was finishing my education back then. I was like, well, you know what, I've been trying different positions and I didn't get anywhere. So let's give it a try at your place. So we had five talks and then I started there as a salesperson for greenhouses. But I had no technical background and I had no, let's say, plant background. So I had to learn a lot. Steep learning curve. There was a nice chance and it's really taken by it. The horticulture industry or you leave straight away. So it's one or the other.

Harry Duran 2:23 - 2:30:

Well, obviously you stuck around. What was it about that experience that was, you know, interesting for you to make you want to keep going?

Floris Berghout 2:30 - 3:12:

Yeah. First of all, it's a very sophisticated technology, so it's very high tech. And I was really surprised by it. I didn't know. I think in the Netherlands, we're quite good in greenhouses in general, but the people that live in Holland don't know it even. But I was quite surprised about it. So I'm still today, every day I learn more about available technologies. And on the other side, my mother was always working in the garden and with plants and everything. So I have a weak spot for green stuff. And, yeah, it's a nice combination. And the last item on the list is the international way of working. So straight from the bat, I was able to sell and try to sell projects all over the world. I flew from New Zealand to Japan, Canada and Argentina and everything in between. So that's. Yeah, it's amazing.

Harry Duran 3:13 - 3:19:

And so when did you start to get the idea for wanting to do something on your own?

Floris Berghout 3:20 - 3:51:

Well, there's also a little bit. If you would have asked me a couple years ago, would you be an entrepreneur, do something yourself? I would say, well, maybe it's not on my priorities, but if there's a chance, I might take it. And, yeah, the last couple of, let's say, last period, this came about and I was really thinking, well, it's now or never. I'm 30 years old, I have a child of six months. So it's busy to do everything at the same time. But I can imagine if you have five kids running around, that can be too difficult. Because now or never.

Harry Duran 3:52 - 4:18:

Yeah, there never seems to be a perfect time to do something like this or take on a project like this. It's like, you know, they always say the, you know, the analogy that when they use for a tree is the best time to plant the tree would have been yesterday, and the second best time would be today. So, you know, it's never a perfect time. And I think you learn a lot as you go and you don't have all the answers when you start, but I think if you believe in your idea and you're confident that you can put a solid team together, usually that's enough to get started.

Floris Berghout 4:18 - 4:20:

I think so. Yeah, I agree.

Harry Duran 4:20 - 4:52:

So where did you think that you wanted to play in this space? Because like you said, obviously in the Netherlands, there's a strong history of greenhouses and a lot of experienced players in the space. And obviously a lot of that has been helpful for people in the vertical farming industry because, you know, they think they've solved and they've created this new way of growing. And then they realize, you know, that there's a lot to be learned from the greenhouse experts because they've been doing it for decades. And so when you see all these technologies coming together, how did you figure out and how did you make the decision to decide where you wanted to play in this space and what type of company you wanted to create?

Floris Berghout 4:52 - 5:35:

The nice thing is that, yes, you're correct, there's a lot of knowledge available from the, I call it between brackets, old fashioned horticulture, which is still high tech. But the people that have worked in this field might be not so flexible always in a way that they say, well, we've developed this technology, it's very high tech and we don't need to change anything at all. And on the other end, we have a lot of new people coming in the industry from, let's say universities or highly skilled economists that are trying to create new concepts, but they lack the experience from the field. And I'm a little bit in between, not only by age, but also by experience. So I can see myself being the bridge between these two segments of people. And that's also how I would position in the company and the company I work for.

Harry Duran 5:36 - 5:37:

How big is the team now?

Floris Berghout 5:37 - 5:39:

It's 14 people.

Harry Duran 5:39 - 5:40:

Okay.

Floris Berghout 5:40 - 5:41:

Yeah.

Harry Duran 5:41 - 6:09:

And so I'm curious because obviously being a business owner and entrepreneur myself, as you think about building a team and we have people that listen that are thinking about starting farms, building teams, I'm curious if you've had some experience with a mentor or someone that you learned from in terms of like how to do something like this. Because when you're doing it for the first time, if you don't have the experience or you don't have an experience of someone who's been there before, it can be a lot to take on. So I'm curious about your thought process. How do you think about who to hire, when to hire to get to the point that you're at now?

Floris Berghout 6:09 - 6:48:

Yeah, now definitely. I made use of a lot of mentors and teachers and people that know more than I do. One very important thing that I always notice is that there's a lot of people that know a lot more than I do. But I don't need to know it myself as long as I can access that information. So at the get go, the first thing I did was who do I know in my network that I can just ask, hey, can I take you out for dinner? Can we have a cup of coffee? Can I listen to your story and Use that information to make an idea for myself. Of course, I have a very strong idea myself as well. So I take the information and filter it and I use whatever I think is interesting. But nevertheless, the more people you speak to, the smarter you get.

Harry Duran 6:51 - 7:02:

And so as you start to think about the team, did you have a strategy in place for who you wanted to hire? How did you make a decision as to which positions would be more important for a brand new company like yours?

Floris Berghout 7:02 - 7:48:

Yeah, well, the company was already existing. I took it over from a person that is retiring. So that's quite a confident situation. Nevertheless, there's growth potential and we need to build a team to make use of the capabilities of the company. And it's difficult nowadays. We see there's just in every field of business there is a lack of people and there are people that are very willing, but it's difficult to keep them on board. So one thing is that I look for people that are aligning with our company values and ideas and that they can really fit in the sort of family type of structure that we created. And they would not watch for the first recruiter that comes by waving, hey, I got a nice contract for you, a little bit more pay. Would you want to talk with me? And that works out, to be honest. Yeah.

Harry Duran 7:49 - 8:08:

Interesting word that you chose there to. You're building this family structure. Is that how you think about like the team that you're building? Because a lot of times, you know, when people work at companies, they don't feel a connection to the team. They don't feel a connection for the same mission and the vision. But it sounds like, you know, the culture that you're trying to build there has that idea of being a family and all in it together.

Floris Berghout 8:08 - 8:46:

Yeah. My first job was at a family owned company and I really enjoyed the way of working there. There are some good sizes, some bad sides, of course, but I really learned a lot there. And also me as a person, I'm a person type of manager. You can also have managers that are looking more at the goals or other stuff, of course, everything you have to have in a certain amount. But I enjoy the training of people to grow together, to learn from people and appreciate what they're doing. And if they can get that feeling, they go 200%. It's much more easy to work with them and much more easier to keep them and everything will flow. So that's my goal and also what I like about my work, to work with people.

Harry Duran 8:46 - 8:54:

So for the listener and the viewer who are not familiar with VMOs, how would you describe what your current product offering is and who you're currently working with?

Floris Berghout 8:54 - 9:23:

een around for many years. In: 1947

Harry Duran 9:23 - 9:30:

Yeah, and so for anyone who's not familiar with the concept of a moving gutter system, can you describe the technology and how it's used?

-: 10:26

Yes, of course. So the idea is that you make the most right amount of space that it needs to grow. And how do we achieve this? We have narrow gutters, extruded plastic gutters in which we put the plants. And these gutters, they grow gutter tight next to each other of the facility, and they move slowly to the other side of the facility. While moving, they create a gap between the gutters to create more space. So that way you use every inch of your facility. The added benefit is that you have NFT technology, which means that you have a very small film of water running through the gutter to give nutrients and water to the crop and all the runoff is recirculated so you don't have any waste. That way you can have an optimal control of your climate, your growing space and you automate it quite far. So also a huge labor reduction potential. It can be a basic system up to a completely automated plant factory. Depends, of course, on how far you want to take it. Yeah.

Harry Duran: 10:27

So when people come to you and they're looking for your solutions and they're interested in the moving gutter system, where are they in their current greenhouse or in their indoor farm setting? You know, what's the challenge or the struggle that they're having and then where they're looking for you as to help.

Floris Berghout: 10:42

Yeah, so it's a bit depending from location to location because there's no grower. The same. And we work with, let's say really growers, but also with investors which can come from oil industry that say, well, we want to diversify and do leafy green production systems. But if you look at the growers, we see also quite a big influx from people that are doing outdoor field growing, encountering bad weather. We heard all the horrible stories, of course, in the south of us. So to be more secure, indoor growing is then the step to go and we can help them with that, but it's quite a huge step. So we try to help them always with creating a business case before we really start with the sales of a project because it's all depending on where can you sell the product for and what is your cost and so on and so on.

Harry Duran: 11:27

And do you find that the clients that you work with that have the most success, are they retrofitting an existing gutter system or are they building new farms? Or is it a mix of both?

Floris Berghout: 11:37

Yeah, a mix of both, I think, because some growers, they have quite some experience already with growing lettuce and they can benefit from that because they know the physiology of the plant and they understand the climate and such things. Other people are more tech related so they understand the technology. We also have clients that are further up in the supply chain. So there's the processing companies that say, well, we need to make sure that we have the product for the fast food companies. So they all have a different benefit because today's companies know exactly what kind of cost price is okay to have. So it's really depending on who you talk to. The nice thing is because we have so long experience, we can really tune in and listen and okay, this is your strength. But look at these kind of things that you thought about, these kind of aspects and so on to help.

Harry Duran: 12:21

Yeah, you mentioned the making the business use case and I think that's something a lot of new farmers don't think too far in advance about. What are some of the mistakes or some of the things that you see that when you're working with prospects or you're working with people and you're looking at their existing operations, where are some of the challenges that people have and how should they be thinking about their projects from a business case and using that lens so they're making informed decisions.

Floris Berghout: 12:45

I think there's three basic steps that people might overlook. The first thing is if there's a certain period in the year where the product is very expensive in the shelves in supermarket, then people start thinking, hey, this is money, let's invest and do a project. But they don't calculate that there's like high season, low season, what is the reason for it? So having good understanding of the market is key. It makes sense, of course, but there's a lot of people that think, I have money, I want to invest it now. So they might be a little bit too positive about the potential on one end. But we can help them with that. Of course, the other aspect is it's still growing in the sense that we are talking about plants. So you need to control the climate well, diseases can creep in your system. You need to keep everything clean. You can have two years of perfect production, and the third year everything goes to. How can I say it politely? Shit. But that's important to also understand that you start never with 100% production. You always start with 70, 80, 90. You build it up and you have some redundancy also in your business case, to make sure what if. And that's also a thought process. And then of course, depends on the people, if they're willing to take a risk, yes or no, how much redundancy you build in. But that's something we help them with as well. And I had a third one, but that slipped my mind now. So I'll get back to you.

Harry Duran: 13:57

But it'll come back to you. When you're having these conversations with prospects and people that are, you know, you're sharing the system with, is that a surprise for them? Do they realize that they haven't been looking at it from the proper lens or. And is it a bit of an education process for them as well?

Floris Berghout: 14:11

Yeah, it's always. Yes, it is. And it's sometimes a bit difficult because you have to build a certain trust with somebody to really open up and explain exactly what the situation is. And you don't have to tell me a lot. I have been in sales for a long time and sometimes you want to sell something. So telling your client, well, I'm not 100% sure that your business case is really well, and your competitor is saying, oh, no worries, you can do 10 million products of this and that. You can sell it. And, you know, there's always this balance you have to take. So it is sometimes a surprise. Yes. But I think when you get there and the client will trust you, at a certain moment, you really build something solid. And then we're also in the business of continuing business. So not one project can run away, want to do one project, the next one the next one, and grow together with our clients. So it's major importance that they succeed.

Harry Duran: 14:58

Yeah. And so it sounds like you're working with them throughout the entire process and just seeing how they're using the technology in their greenhouse, seeing if they're having challenges with it and making sure you're growing with them.

Floris Berghout: 15:09

Exactly. And we supply only part of the whole system, of course, because the structures, the buildings, the H Vac, that is not Technology that we have in house, but we do know about it and we do know the potential suppliers and we can help to make sure that they get all that they need, even including if they would need a grower from Europe or some crop advisor or whatever, an AI tool to help them to support the climate control. We know what kind of things are available, so we can help them with that. We're not selling that. We will help them. Here you go. Talk to these people and together we make something.

Harry Duran: 15:41

The other product that you're offering is the different types of benches. You know, I saw that you have also mobile in the roller benches. Can you talk a little bit about that technology and who that would be a good fit for?

Floris Berghout: 15:50

Yeah, so in a way, we use that technology for the young plant production phase of the crop. So you could grow the young plants in trays, for instance. And then a mobile bench can be very suitable to do this, or maybe a fixed bench, depending on how far you want to take the automation. Back in the days, and I'm Talking about the 80s 90s, we used to sell these kind of benches also to flower growers and such things. It's a widely adapted technology. You can also use it quite easily as a manually pushed system up until fully automated and also vertical. So there's a huge market for these kind of systems as well. Yet again, it's a side product for us, so we just use it to supplement our MGS systems. And so you have three versions. You have the fixed benches. You can see it as just a table where you can grow on with ebb and flood irrigation. You have the roll top bench and which is also a fixed table, but then the top can move to left and right to create one pathway instead of having one path for every bench. But now you have six benches next to each other, but one pathway. I hope I can explain it like this a bit.

Harry Duran: 16:49

Yeah, yeah.

Floris Berghout: 16:50

And the last one is a mobile bench and you can see it as a table top that can move around in your facility. And the reason is that you then don't need to go in and out the greenhouse with a lot of people. You just bring the product to the work area. So you keep out the diseases, you keep out the labor, you keep out the unnecessary walking back and forth. And this is also a big benefit of these kind of benching systems.

Harry Duran: 17:10

So obviously with the benefit of being in a company that has such a history in horticulture and you're probably, you know, inherited some of that DNA from the company, where are you seeing you Know, if you look at the macro picture of everything that's been happening in the industry and the news about the ups and downs of the companies in the space, companies exiting, going bankrupt, and obviously not having a viable business model. From your perspective, like, what are you seeing in terms of trends? And maybe you've seen different trends in different regions, but because you have such a, you know, a diverse footprint, I was curious about your perspective about where you're seeing the industry headed.

Floris Berghout: 17:46

Yeah, I think especially the vertical side of the business is just a matter of that's maturing at the moment, and it comes with a little bit of pain left and right, pain in the back, pain in the knees, but also for the businesses. And with maturing comes also that it's more clear what kind of business cases would work. I mean, for instance, in the Netherlands we have a very good logistical network. We can reach other countries quite fast. And there's a lot of outdoor production. So the need for automated systems for growing heads of lettuce, for instance, is not so high. But things are changing and quite fast, to be honest. We see change in regulation for chemical use. I expect that by the end of next year, October, there will be less production in the fields because of this new regulation in Europe. Now, what is the solution to go more indoors? Now I can make a whole story about climate. More rains, floods, whatever, fires, droughts. If you want to have less water, more production, indoor would be best. Actually, it's the only option. And I'm a strong believer that we need to intensify what we do to grow even more on a small surface so we can leave the rest of the area for nature, for people to live on and whatsoever. So I think the term is eco modernism, but I'm a strong believer and I also see the trends going towards that. More intensive growing.

Harry Duran: 19:03

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And how do you think farmers should be preparing for that? Is it possible to prepare for that or what are your thoughts there?

Floris Berghout: 19:11

Yeah, I would say because if you're an outdoor farmer, you have huge amount of land to farm on and you produce also a lot to be commercially viable. And you're not going to convert everything in one day into indoor farming facilities. But if they are future prepared, they should start already with small facilities, small test cases, grow certain amounts of crop, make sure that your basic contract is covered by indoor growing so that you never get problems with your client and losing your contract and slowly converting them more indoors. And that can be then in a more conventional greenhouse, plastic glass, but also in a vertical Setting and the decision to make for let's say vertical or horizontal setting is more depending on the business case. What kind of value do you get for your crop and so on and so on. Yeah.

Harry Duran: 19:57

And so as you start to think about the future of VMOs and obviously with the history that you already have, how do you think about the opportunities moving forward and where do you see for your company like the opportunities, whether they're in new developments, in anything you're doing from a technology perspective or anything in terms of new markets?

Floris Berghout: 20:17

Yeah. So we have been operational more in the European market for many years and quite known in this segment of the world. But there's a whole world to take over, more or less and I see huge opportunities for us to do more also in North America, but also in Asia. At the moment, as we speak, we're doing a project in Japan, one in Poland, one in the US and one in Chile. So that's literally all the corners of the world. And if only a couple percent of all these outdoor productions would go indoors, I cannot handle all the work. There's a huge amount of potential for us. So yeah, all the bad things that are going out, going on in the world with the climate and all this kind of stuff is actually helping us to create more business. So it's a bittersweet trade off in a way. On the other hand, we make sure that we can produce more with less energy, we make sure that people get healthy food and that's stuff that I can really live by. So I mean I tried to calculate how many heads of lettuce have been produced in our systems, but if you have 700 hectares and it's millions and.

Harry Duran: 21:13

Millions, that's a lot.

Floris Berghout: 21:14

It's mind blowing amount. Yeah.

Harry Duran: 21:17

What does a typical day look like for you?

Floris Berghout: 21:21

Is there a typical day? Well, I wake up around five and it's not by choice, but more because my little son starts around that time. Then of course the start of the day staff. I try to be in the office between 7 and 8. First thing I do, I make a list of things I want to do for the day and I try to make a list of not more than five points and then I plan the rest of the day, let's say the week and then I start looking at my emails because if I start with the emails, I can just be looking at emails the whole day. So first the top five priorities, I need to finish that and then I'm going to do other stuff. But it's emailing, calling clients, calling suppliers, sitting down with the technical department to see how the process is going, looking for new design for a certain part of the product we have. It can be all sorts of things. So we. I have some recurring meetings in the week and in the month. The marketing, sales, development, cost structure of the company. And so it's. Every day is different. And I just come back from a trade show in Canada. So it's really diverse.

Harry Duran: 22:19

Yeah, I saw that and you posted it on LinkedIn. How do you find those conferences? Are they valuable for you? Are you able to have conversations in person?

Floris Berghout: 22:28

Yeah.

Harry Duran: 22:28

As well.

Floris Berghout: 22:29

Yeah, yeah. It's a two sided one thing. What I always do at these trade shows is try to collect, of course, more leads to position ourselves, get our name in the market. And on the other side, it's sort of networking with all the other suppliers in the market. The horticulture market and also the vertical farm market. It looks like a big market, a lot of people, but in the sense the core people is a small group. So you can really, if you pinpoint the right people and you talk and listen very well, you can get a feeling of what's going on in the market. And that's one of the reasons because everybody's always at these trade shows, traveling circus, because one time they're in Canada, next time you see them in Atlanta and in Japan, same people helps.

Harry Duran: 23:06

Yeah, yeah, I'm not familiar with that one. Is it a pretty big conference?

Floris Berghout: 23:10

It's for that region. It's a good one. It's the show to go to in the Livington area. There's a lot of vine crop production, tomatoes, cucumbers, and that is really pushing the show, let's say. It's like the majority of the people and suppliers there are related to that side of the business. And these big players, they also sell their tomatoes and cucumbers throughout the whole of North America. So if you are lucky, you'll meet the right people there.

Harry Duran: 23:33

And what do you see there? Do you see innovation? Do you see things that are new even for you? You know, having been in the business for a while?

Floris Berghout: 23:40

The problem is with the horticulture industry that the majority of the products are at the end of their product life cycle. So that means that the huge improvements are very difficult and expensive. And we see only small, I mean low iron glass for more UV radiation and more light, a little bit better shade screen, some extra H vac components, LED lights. Quite advancing still to be honest, but that has been around from the 80s already, so it's not new technology. Having that said, I see more and more people focusing on software, climate control software, grow advice software, potentially AI supported advice, remote control, such things.

Harry Duran: 24:19

Yeah, yeah.

Floris Berghout: 24:21

And yeah, so I saw a nice company that was offering drones and I was asking what do you use them for? For spraying the roof of the greenhouse. Spraying chemicals in the greenhouse. Why not? Yeah.

Harry Duran: 24:33

And what other conferences do you have coming up?

Floris Berghout: 24:36

We're going to exhibit at the Indoor Econ in Las Vegas, but it's March next year. We have in. Perfect. We meet each other there. We have the Fruit Logistica in Berlin, let's say winter 2025 in Europe and greentech in Amsterdam. Yeah, these three are already confirmed. There's a lot of other shows. We just walk the show to listen and to hear and to look for our partners and see what we can do. It might end up in a lot more shows, but these ones are confirmed at the moment.

Harry Duran: 25:02

Yeah, indoor icon is, you know, they've had a lot of years of experience. I think this is like the 11th or 12th year and every year it's getting bigger and bigger. So we're happy to have them as a sponsor of the show as well. But they really put on a good show.

Floris Berghout: 25:15

Yeah, yeah, it's getting better and also the type of people that are attending is getting better as well in a way. It was a new show of course, 10 years ago and you see some development and cannabis people, medical farm people and now there's a good bunch of everybody. So really the decision makers are going there. So I like the show. Yeah, for sure.

Harry Duran: 25:33

I've heard amazing things about greentech as well. I think I'm going to have to put that on the calendar.

Floris Berghout: 25:37

Oh well, you're more than welcome. If you come over then I can show you the show in Amsterdam as well if you like.

Harry Duran: 25:41

Oh yeah, that'd be good, that'd be fun. Yeah, we'll have to plan that. What is a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

Floris Berghout: 25:49

Did I make the right decision to put everything I have in a business? I mean, I'm all in if I'm honest. So it has to be successful. But I'm not worried. I'm a positive guy and we'll make it happen one way or the other. But that's a question that I had to ask me a couple of times and other than that, most things that come across are never as difficult as you expected. The first time you get hit by a problem and you think, oh shit, everything goes to whatever and then you take a step and breathe and then you Think about it, and you call somebody, and then in the end, it's not as bad as I thought it was. So, yeah, maybe a little bit blessed with positive mindset, but helpful. I like the challenge.

Harry Duran: 26:31

I think it's important. The mindset is really. I think that's one of the underappreciated things of running a business. Or, you know, people can have the skill, and they can have the knowledge and the connections, but if you don't have the mindset to get you through the tough times, I think that's where you see a lot of people fail because, you know, they think everything's falling apart. And, you know, you said you have a little bit of some discipline in the morning and you have some systems and for how you start the day. And I think the positivity, it's. You know, I think more and more people are becoming aware of how important that is, you know, to get you through these moments, to realize there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Floris Berghout: 27:01

Yeah. And it's not like I've been an entrepreneur for many years, but just in my career in general, I have learned that it's not about getting. It's so cliche, but it is not getting to the end, but it's the route towards it. So I try to enjoy all the stuff. During the day, I talk to my colleagues. I mean, for instance, I have also had a lot of colleagues that worked with me. We did good business together. I trained them a little bit, and they went to another company, and I always applaud them and say, good luck. And in many years, they come back to me. I see them at the trade show. We still have a good conversation, and we have some business again. And it really helps me to enjoy what I'm doing to help the people. And we have a nice business trip. I mean, I have a jet lag. It's long hours. I got stuck with customs for three hours for no reason. So it's not nice. But now I have a nice story, you know, so you just have to turn around a little bit and enjoy the stuff that's happening, and what happens, happens. You cannot force it and just make the best out of it.

Harry Duran: 27:52

Maybe we'll. You'll share that custom story and in Vegas, over around the drinks. So, Flores, as we get close to the end of this conversation, what I've been doing is leaving some space for you if you have a message for this industry, because we have a lot of your colleagues and your peers in the space, Other leaders listen to the show, have Been on the show, and I'm always trying to create this environment of collaboration.

Floris Berghout: 28:15

Yeah.

Harry Duran: 28:16

So based on your experience and being with a company that's been around for so long, you know, having conversations with other peers, you know, what message do you have for this industry from, you know, based on your perspective and what you've seen.

Floris Berghout: 28:27

Yeah. Reach out to other people and talk about stuff. I know that everybody has good ideas and everybody thinks that they have the golden egg. And of course, you need to protect your idea. You have to do that. Of course. But also try to reach out and talk to people, let's say from just graduated to people that have been retired, has been in the business for many times, growers, investors. Don't create a bubble for yourself and only talk to the same type of people because you get stuck somewhere and all of a sudden it's not going in the right way. So just try to look for a wide audience. A lot of people take the time. And I also like to invite everybody that has a question. Don't hesitate to reach out to me. I definitely don't know everything, but I might know somebody who knows it and I can redirect you and that can be helpful. And I hope that that favor will be returned in the future, and then together we can get somewhere.

Harry Duran: 29:17

Yeah. Very well spoken. I think it's a consistent message. We keep hearing that, this idea of collaboration and not being holding everything so close to the vest, and people and I think for a while were worried about proprietary systems and secret recipes. And I think what we're finding is, like, the outside world doesn't really see that. And so you don't realize how small of an industry it is until you're inside and you say, you know, you're saying from the conferences, you see this person at the conference and you see the same person at the next conference, and you start to realize, like, you know, it's a really small industry and word gets around and word spreads. And I think the more invitations to collaborate, the more invitations to be open and share, I think it can. Is definitely positive.

Floris Berghout: 29:54

Good. Yeah, I agree.

Harry Duran: 29:55

Yeah. So what's next for the future of UMOs? Like, what are you excited about?

Floris Berghout: 30:00

Well, we're now gearing up for the next year, so we're creating other budgets for what to do what to invest in, what regions in the world to put more effort and time in. And we are targeting North America. And so you probably will hear more about us and see us more around in the coming year. So I'm excited for that. I Mean, I had a great trip in Canada and I'm looking for the next one in March to Indore aircon. And of course, there's interesting projects and clients we fly in and out in between. So. Yeah, that's the first thing.

Harry Duran: 30:26

Yeah. Have you been to Las Vegas before?

Floris Berghout: 30:29

Yes, unfortunately. Okay. I have attended the mjbiz show a couple of times.

Harry Duran: 30:35

Oh, yeah.

Floris Berghout: 30:35

And indoor econ also. So I've been there.

Harry Duran: 30:38

Yeah.

Floris Berghout: 30:38

It's a nice experience.

Harry Duran: 30:40

Yeah, it's a fun city, but after about two or three days, it's enough and you need to leave.

Floris Berghout: 30:45

It's a good place to do once, at least in your life, just to see what's going on and have the experience.

Harry Duran: 30:49

Yeah, the experience. The zoo. Well, thank you for reaching out. Like I said, there's so many great things happening in this space across the globe. And I'm glad you reached out and we got to connect because I'm interested in telling stories and hearing all the different ways that people have entered this industry. And obviously your path was unique as well. But I think it continues to inspire our listeners and our viewers to understand there is no one way to enter this industry. And there's a lot of different, you know, solutions that are required. And if you feel like you have something to add, I think hopefully this conversation will inspire people to think creatively about what part they can play making this food available and figuring out all these challenges we have from a supply chain issue to accessibility to fresh food, which is something people have not thought about. They're so used to going to the supermarket and expecting everything to be there, not realizing you turn over the packaging and you see how many miles everything had to travel to get to that shelf. The education process is helpful, but, you know, the work that you're doing I think is important. So I kudos and I applaud you for that.

Floris Berghout: 31:50

Thank you very much.

Harry Duran: 31:52

So we'll have the link to the website most DGs, DK and we'll put those in the show notes. Anywhere else you want to send folks to connect with you if they have any other questions?

Floris Berghout: 32:02

Well, yeah, you can always reach me on my LinkedIn as well. It's easy. They can just shoot a text message via LinkedIn.

Harry Duran: 32:07

We'll have them the links in the show notes as well.

Floris Berghout: 32:09

Yeah, so I think that's good. And of course, around the world at trade shows. So if you try to catch me, just reach out to see if I'm there and you might convince me to go there. So don't hesitate to let me know.

Harry Duran: 32:19

Okay. Sounds good. Well, I appreciate your time. It's really interesting to hear your story, and I appreciate you taking the time.

Floris Berghout: 32:24

Yeah. Thank you again for having me. And all the best.