163: Marc Oshima - Revolutionizing Farm-to-Table - Babylon Microfarms’ Vision

Marc Oshima: 00:00:00

And so ultimately we ended up being the first indoor farmer for leafy greens to be national partner for Whole Foods. And it was testimony around the product and the relationships we had built the team and then ultimately with the customer having the right sales velocity and demonstrating obviously that performance.

Harry Duran: 00:00:16

So, Mark Koshima, new CEO of Babylon Microfarms, thank you so much for joining me on the Vertic farming podcast.

Marc Oshima: 00:00:24

Yeah, really excited, excited to be here.

Harry Duran: 00:00:26

Yeah.

Marc Oshima: 00:00:26

And excited to be, you know, continuing to share the next chapter and the work I'm doing within AgTech and you know, how we commercialize, how we scale businesses.

Harry Duran: 00:00:36

Where have your travels been taking you lately?

Marc Oshima: 00:00:39

Whirlwind travels. So most recently I was in Charlotte, North Carolina but for a very important conference put on by the Senior Dining Association. And senior care, part of healthcare, is a key vertical for us. So at Babylon Microfarms we are into B2B selling. Our customers are major food management companies and their clients, we bring the farm to them, to you. And the idea is we've developed all of the technology platform and something we call Babylon iq. It's a network that allows us to see the entire fleet of farms and how we operate the farms today is background. Babylon is operating in five countries. We have over 350 farms across key verticals. And really what we think is the sweet spot is really within health care, corporate dining, hospitality and education and within healthcare. Senior care is a really, really interesting use case for us. And we have operators indicate that with the introduction of the Babylon Microfarms, these are farms that are going right into the client's dining rooms. It's driven engagement and more importantly it's driven consumption of leafy greens up by 35%.

Harry Duran: 00:01:54

Wow.

Marc Oshima: 00:01:54

And that's an incredibly compelling number and we're excited to be able to drive that kind of experience and you know, great tasting food and they're eating it, it's even better. So when we talk about how to have an impact on nutrition and this bigger platform, food is medicine, it goes back to the old maximum. If you grow it, it's eat it and it's an amazing connection. And that's ultimately what we're doing, is fostering this greater connection, you know, with your food, where it's come from, how it's prepared, how has it grown, even more importantly, and we're excited to be part of that.

Harry Duran: 00:02:27

It's interesting that aspect of the visual component because I've mentioned to the team every time I go to indoor E con, the placement of the, the mini form at the signup Desk. And I don't know if it wasn't, this is the first year it wasn't, but it was just noticeable every time. And you think about this visibility of the food you're about to eat. You know, sometimes you go into these high end steakhouses and they've got you walk past the dry aging room with the glass in it or the wine cellar. And this is interesting because, you know, you touched on something that's important. It's, you know, it's not something that's just relegated to like tossed salad as the option on the menu. Like educating people as to like the difference between something that's actually, you know, made locally made, you know, picked fresh. And I think what you're speaking to is this visibility aspect and how high end restaurants are thinking about this now I think is pretty smart because, you know, people see that and they just get naturally curious. Right. You're having dinner and you're like, what's this beautiful display? And they come to realize that it's actually food in there and just ornamental.

Marc Oshima: 00:03:25

Yeah, I mean that's what's absolutely compelling about this. And yeah, there's all these, you know, healthy aspects around biophilic design. So this kind connection with nature and you know, you see something green and there's vitality to it, so you just naturally feel good. It releases endorphins and then you open it up and then you can smell it and you get the sensorial delight and then you get a chance to eat it. Right. And like you said, you know, it's Harvey said, right. At its peak flavor, peak nutrition. And it's this proposition of, you know, it's grown so, you know, to the menu. You know, the chefs are thinking from a culinary standpoint, know how to prepare, how to source and how to utilize the product. And so it's a really complete, you know, closed loop system here in terms of the growing and then it's bringing the farm. Farm to table experience. Yes. You know, to every meal.

Harry Duran: 00:04:12

Absolutely. So we last spoke in 2021. I had a look up the date. It was a while ago.

Marc Oshima: 00:04:18

Amazing.

Harry Duran: 00:04:18

And there was a lot of things going on in the industry and obviously in your life, you had previously held the position of CMO at AeroFarms. So I'm curious now, like in the transition from that, that CMO role to now CEO, are there any sort of leadership beliefs or strategies that you've had to like unlearn in order to succeed at like what I imagine is a smaller and faster moving organization?

Marc Oshima: 00:04:44

Yeah, well, a couple Things, I mean, first. Well, I was the cmo. I was also the co founder. And so you wear many hats, right? So you're always thinking about all aspects of the business and understanding, you know, how to build a business. Actually one of the things that I think is really important is that those business fundamentals. And so yeah, when you think back, you know, I have a career of over 30 years in business driving large scale commercial businesses. It's understanding, you know, what is the right economic model, who are your customers, how do you uniquely serve them. Those lessons don't go away, you know, depending on, you know, because it's a different size organization or it's B2B versus B2C, it's really understanding, you know, those core fundamentals. And so I think that's allowed me to just bring a real keen focus to be able to think about the business at hand. And I think bring that focus is really important because it's just based on the years of experience of understanding, you know, what are the key drivers approach that we're trying to do is actually one of focus. And I can use that word in terms of streamline and focus, which is within an emerging company. You know, you try a lot of different things, you see, you know, what works, where the applications may be. And for Babylon Microfarms, the exciting thing is that there's a very fertile area and so many different verticals that we could be going after and have an impact. But what we said is we're going to go for right now on four key areas that we've had the most success and that's around education, corporate, dining, hospitality and healthcare. We have units at retail, we have units at nonprofits, we have units at, you know, at many different verticals. But right now for the company is. And what made Babylon Microfarm so attractive is that they have this track record, they have its history. You talked about even your own experience of seeing it creating that wow factor. And that's really been, you know, the statement piece is the show piece has been this gallery unit that we have. And it goes right into, you know, not the kitchen, but right into the dining room. And sometimes it goes right into the lobby or entranceway, you know, of our partners. And that's how much of a showcase it is and how exciting. You know, they're about how excited they are about the product offering. But then you couple that with, we have a really talented team, we have an amazing account support. And so one of the things that really differentiates Babylon Microfarms is around the customer Experience and be able to support and really make this much more turnkey. You know, from the installation to the ongoing management. And then you think about the great customer base. And so we're working with all the major food management companies. And so when we think about, you know, how do you scale the business? It's, you know, how do we go deeper with these partners.

Harry Duran: 00:07:28

You mentioned a couple of different things that were attractive in terms of the approach that Babylon Microfilms has taken. Did you have or were you considering a lot of different offers in that transition time between deciding what your next move was going to be and you know, was it really like the entire approach that you just outlined and their offerings that really made it like a, an easy decision for you for what your next chapter would look like?

Marc Oshima: 00:07:53

Yeah, so there were certain things I had as criteria. I was very fortunate in terms of before coming to Mavillon Microfarms, I was doing consulting with global clients around the world. And my background, even before Aerofarms I had been in the supermarket, in the food, specialty food business. And so I was working with food companies as well as ag tech companies and getting a chance to think about again how to help them with their commercialization. But my passion has been in this indoor farming and helping build not just companies but an entire industry. That passion is understanding where you can uniquely address the market. And I think that those are things I mentioned, the product, the customer, the team, those are all core. You also have fantastic investor base here at Babylon Microfarms, deeply committed investors through multiple rounds and committed to future. And so that was really attractive in terms of thinking and making sure we can have the right kind of impact and scale the business in the right way.

Harry Duran: 00:08:55

When you think about how much talk there is about automation in the industry, how do you feel that that needs to get balanced and you know, maybe specifically Babylon Microfarms or even the industry as a whole, balance that with the human touch that's needed to build these emotional connections that you're speaking of with food, especially in places like, you know, like schools and hospitals?

Marc Oshima: 00:09:14

Yeah, I think that's a pretty complex kind of framing. And I'll talk first about automation in terms of the benefits. And it's about scale, it's about economies, it's about efficiencies. It makes sense at certain size organizations. At the same time, you know, what we're talking about in particular with the Babylon Microfarms is around a connection with the food. And so this idea of engaging the client docridge or the residential to be hands on you know, we're giving them the tools to be very successful so that they can have that successful harvest. But you know, we're telling them when to transplant, when to harvest, what's needed, you know, in terms of, to be able to support the system? Yeah, you know, to give you a little bit of background on the organization. It's been around since 2017 and then, you know, they're working on their ninth generation of technology. So a lot of lessons learned in which each one of those iterations in terms of understanding how does that operate and I think that's what makes it unique is that we now have so much years of operating history in different environments, different geographies and we've made it turnkey. We now have our farms cruising the world on cruise ships, literally cruising on cruise ships. And gives you a sense of the autonomy, the self autonomous aspect and how resilient the farming approach is. And I think that just speaks volumes to what the team has been able to accomplish so far.

Harry Duran: 00:10:40

Has there been an installation that has surprised you when you first heard about it? The fact that they were a location that was actually interested in thriving with a small farm?

Marc Oshima: 00:10:50

Well, what I've been really excited about is just really the breadth of customers. And when we talk about high profile customers, even before I took this role, a friend of mine sent me a photo of one of the Babylon microfarm installations at the Intuit Dome, which is the state of the art dome that Steve Ballmer made for the LA Clippers. And it turns out we have six of our farms located there and growing. And it's fantastic to see in different venues, you know, how it shows up. But I mean, if I tell you that we're at Mayo's clinic, right, you know, the premier for healthcare. If I tell you that we're at the U.S. olympic Training Center, I mean, unbelievable. We're at LinkedIn, you know, corporate offices, you know, we're at top, you know, universities and, and top schools. It's incredibly exciting. And the proposition, we just had some school driven cuttings for public schools within New York City school system. And so the idea that it can have the right solution in these different environments and create the right kind of engagement and inspiration is incredibly exciting for us.

Harry Duran: 00:11:53

Yeah, I think that's something. Stephen Ritz posted something recently. A partnership with New York City.

Marc Oshima: 00:11:58

So Stephen Ritz with the Green Bronx machine is actually one of our partners. He's our education ambassador. But more than that, he's a life ambassador. Right. And he's out there evangelizing what we need to do in terms of the students education and how indoor farming is part of that. But he's teaching more than farming skills. He's teaching these life skills to the students. And his message is actually extended down to the corporate world. You know, he's a sought after, you know, subject matter expert in terms of health and wellness. And as you know, the energy there is just incredible. So yeah, we're really fortunate to have him as a partner.

Harry Duran: 00:12:36

Seeing Steven's partnership as an example, where do you see we are in the industry with this wave of like educating like new folks, new kids in high school, you know, early college to be thinking about careers in this industry and do we need 10 more Stephens or do we need. Is there another approach or are there other approaches that you're seeing that are making waves and bringing more awareness from an educational perspective?

Marc Oshima: 00:13:03

Yeah, well, even with Stephen, look, he has one of the top 100 education programs in the world. He works with thousands of schools around the world. So there's ways of scaling the impact that Steven's doing. But the reality is it's just scratching the surface when we think about. And that's also what we think about the total available market. There's so much more for us to be able to operate within. And that's what we think is exciting in terms of that Runway. We need to find the right partners though, that can help drive the scale. And so, you know, we need to be selling not just a school, but, you know, can we sell a school district in terms of, you know, driving is the kind of impact, you know, that we're hoping to be able to do as quickly as we want to be able to do. But you're right, there's a new generation coming up every year. And so the idea that we can have that impact and you know, we're trying to think about how, how do we fit or how do we work within bigger programs. One of the organizations I'd worked with at Aero Farms and then I'm excited that there's opportunities now with Babylon Microfarms has been the World Economic Forum. The prior work had been around Healthy Cities, Healthy Communities Initiative. We're now involved with something called yes Cities. We were part of the yes San Francisco Pilot and Uplink and the World Economic Forum that kicked off earlier and that was so successful, that's now been extended into a broader World economic forum for 50 different cities that they're going to be rolling this out to. And so finding the right partners is a found, you know, thinking about how you can scale efficiently, you know, from that standpoint. And so organizations like that can help us from a networking standpoint as well.

Harry Duran: 00:14:41

Do you think this topic, thinking how you've worked alongside nonprofit and work public schools and corporations and hospitality brands, do you see a mindset, a difference in the mindset across these sectors when it comes to embracing this concept of decentralized food production? And do you find that Babylon is adapting its message to meet them where they are in terms of what their objectives are?

Marc Oshima: 00:15:06

Well, they're definitely different messages for these verticals that I mentioned in terms of emphasis. I mean, at the heart, there's a connection with your food. Better flavor, better nutrition. But it could be on the education front. It's around stem, the science, technology, engineering, math. It's around food values. What we see, though, maybe on corporate dining, is around employee wellness. We see a big push as well around sustainability. So there's different messages that can resonate in different ways and be meaningful in different ways depending on the vertical. And that's, I think, why it makes it exciting in the sense that we can have an impact in multiple different ways here. I think one of the things too is just from a sheer food production, our units are quite productive. And we know that there's an ROI depending on what types of crops people grow, if they're growing herbs or if they're growing microgreens. It can be really exciting to be able to have that kind of freshness and offering year round. Not typical, not easy to do. Those are typically crops that don't travel well. So there's a higher price point for those and we can be very successful in those areas. So there's different messages that really resonate in terms of, again, those audiences.

Harry Duran: 00:16:19

Thanks for sharing that. I'm thinking about the waves and all the different ways people have tried to explain what's been happening in indoor farming. Trough of doubt or the trough of disillusionment? Comparing it to the Gartner hive cycle, we've seen that slide probably like a million times already. What do you think are some lessons from these early struggles and pivots of the industry that are underappreciated by new founders and investors?

Marc Oshima: 00:16:45

Well, it goes back to one of the lessons that I was sharing earlier on, which is understanding what business you're in, understanding the economics of your business, and appreciating how your technology can uniquely solve some of these challenges. And I think that's core when you think about what's worked, what hasn't worked, I think the ones that have deviated from that focus and understanding what can they uniquely solve have been challenged. And it's important, you know, it's not just the race to the bottom line, can I beat a low cost provider? It's can I, you know, provide a better value proposition? And so you have to be really conscious of, you know, what crops you're growing, how you're growing it, how you're delivering it, how you're creating that engagement. And so I think that's invaluable to make sure you never lose sight of that, you know, for the business.

Harry Duran: 00:17:32

Yeah.

Marc Oshima: 00:17:32

Now at the same time, you know, because this is new territory, look, I mean, investment is needed. You go down some paths, you try different things, you see what works, what doesn't work. And that's again, there's a maturity in the business as it evolves. There's a maturity in Babylon microfarms where it is where they've been able to really establish their business. And so it's no longer a proof of concept. It's, you know, we have these proof points, you know, we have these milestones, we have these case studies and showing the impact and how it's integrated. So there's things that, you know, do go in waves. That's part of that learning. But the business fundamentals, you know, you can never deviate from.

Harry Duran: 00:18:10

I'm curious how you've been brought to bear your. All your experience, you've had obviously in other industries and other leadership positions. Have you had to adjust your leadership style in this role as CEO? And are the things that you're learning on the job, so to speak, or are the things differently than maybe you had done in the past?

Marc Oshima: 00:18:30

Well, listen, there's a. You're the sum of all your experiences. Right. So you bring it to bear. And you know, I think back to my career, there's been an appreciation, a love of innovation, the role innovation can play. But at the end of the day, it's addressing, you know, who's that end consumer and how again, are you serving that? So that's always been the North Star in terms of, you know, stepping in. I think it's important to appreciate and I shared with the team, you know, look, I'm here for a reason. We're here to scale the business, you know, and grow and build on the great work that the team has done. But it takes maybe a little bit different focus than what's been here. And so that brings some change. And so what's really important and what I've really tried to put a premium on is around Communication and sharing and bringing obviously the management team in as part of the planning process, the collaboration. This is an organization that uses okrs objectives and key results. I was excited to see that, something I've worked with quite extensively. But there were some opportunities to make it more cross collaborative. So again the teams weren't working in silos. How do we problem solve collectively? And those are some things already. This is really just month three, but in terms of helping the organization around, focus, streamline, but also align around these OKRs and how we go to market, what I've put at the forefront for everybody. And again, it's not just a department or central scenario. But you know, the fact is we're all in the business of the customer experience. We're all in the business of sales and how do we drive, you know, and support that. And so it's an important reminder for the organization of why they're doing, you know, whatever they're doing because it has a direct impact. And so making sure we help articulate that vision across the board and then having the organization continue to cascade that down and so important.

Harry Duran: 00:20:21

Yeah, I think that's really important, especially when teams are working with a new leader. I guess there's questions about what your leadership style is going to be like and how your management style is going to be like. And it's nice to see like within these first 90 days that it's been sounds like a relatively smooth transition.

Marc Oshima: 00:20:37

Yeah. And listen, I mean we updated our mission, we updated our values. So those are foundational in terms of like, again, what work are we trying to do? But more importantly, how are we going to do it? So we have buy in in terms of again, these are not just my values, these are shared values. These are the corporate values of what we're going to do and how we're going to hold ourselves accountable, you know, in terms of, you know, how do we go to market, how do we drive results? And so that's really important. We can only get the things that we have ahead of us if we all come together.

Harry Duran: 00:21:05

How big is the team now and are you growing?

Marc Oshima: 00:21:07

We're 40 people.

Harry Duran: 00:21:08

Okay.

Marc Oshima: 00:21:09

And we're investing particularly more on the sales side in order to be able to drive, you know, that front end of the engine. But it's also we see the opportunities there and you know, we've done some classic, you know, sort of assessment. We looked at our customer acquisition costs, we looked at lifetime value. We saw there was an opportunity to invest more without question on the sales side. And it just speaks you know, volumes of what the opportunity is there.

Harry Duran: 00:21:35

I'm thinking about all the experience you had and everything that the industry has gone through. Can you walk us through, like a time that when you maybe faced a moment of doubt where you questioned whether the indoor farming model, if it came up for you, whether the indoor farmer model would truly scale and then what decision or insight might have helped you push forward?

Marc Oshima: 00:21:53

Yeah. So, I mean, there's really important lessons along the way. And sometimes you think like, oh, maybe if we had known that earlier, we might have done some things a little bit differently. And I'll give one example from Arrow Farms in particular, that's been a good reminder even for today with Babylon Microfarms. Understanding in this thing, what is your customer telling you? What are they telling us? We had a great partner in Whole Foods Market at Arrow Farms on the retail side. So different strategy in terms of how we were building the business. And we were very much focused in terms of how we were going to expand from region to region. We were in the northeast and then we're going to expand to the North Atlantic, then we're going to expand to the mid Atlantic. And we worked with their corporate team. Their corporate team came in and they were blown away by the quality of the product. Right. And they said, this product is amazing. We would take this back to California today. And, you know, that was an eye opening moment in terms of validation that we were onto something different. True product differentiation in the marketplace. And the fact is, it was a bigger proposition at the time than just local. And the idea that, you know, it might have changed our mindset in terms of how we thought about scaling and how fast we would have scaled on a national footprint. And so ultimately we ended up being the first indoor farmer for leafy greens to be national partner for Whole Foods. And it was testimony around the product and the relationships we had built with the team and then ultimately with the customer having the right sales velocity and demonstrating obviously that performance. But if we had listened to that feedback earlier on, you know, say we would have taken this to California, you know, today we might have, you know, rethought some of the strategies about, you know, where we put some of the farms, how big those farms could be, how, you know, and that they could serve a national footprint in a different way. So, you know, it's always imperative to listen to the customer and making sure. I mean, one of the things that we did already here at Babylon Microfarms is we made sure we did a net promoter survey, again, listen to the customer Listen to the customer and then listen to what we're doing well, but also identify what we need to work on and that becomes your roadmap of again, how do you make sure we're aligned as an organization to drive the right customer experience? We have some amazing feedback from those promoters in terms of the love of the product, the ease of the product, the quality of the product. And then we have some that aren't as strong and it has to go back to. They may have been told that all of a sudden they're going to be operating the farm. Right. And so how do we. They might not have been their first choice to do is operate on the farm and so they're not as engaged. Right. And so we need to identify, like, how can we ensure we have the right operator and there's turnover in the industry. Right. So you could have the best person today, then next time, you know, you might that person that might not be there and then they get promoted and they move on to something else. So we're looking at ways of how to make that more systematic and drive that alignment there. But those are correctable, you know, those are addressable. Those are things that we can fix, you know, and make improvements on. And we were really pleased with the work and the results we were getting from the Net Promoter Score as well. It's the ultimate barometer of customer loyalty. Right. And you know, this one question, you know, would you recommend this product or service to a family member or friend? And it's something that has been a really good health check of the business.

Harry Duran: 00:25:20

Yeah, I'm getting flashbacks because when I worked at E Trade, I managed a customer service reporting team and one of the deliverables was the implementation of the Net Promoter Score across the organization. And it's a very simple question, but there's a lot of complexity involved in like implementing it and obviously following up on it. But again, to your point, if you don't ask the questions, you don't know and you're sort of living in this world of like, you know, you're just hearing the good news and not the full picture.

Marc Oshima: 00:25:47

We're really prioritizing, you know, the voice of the customer. We're doing UX interviews, what we're doing these surveys, the Net Promoter Score. So it's again, making sure you're listening to the customer and that's helping us inform how we prioritize the work we're doing.

Harry Duran: 00:26:03

Is there something that they've asked for or folks are looking to in terms of a future development or an Enhancement to the existing product line.

Marc Oshima: 00:26:12

Well, there's some general comments in terms of. They're already pleased that we can grow 45 different varieties. I mean, we've grown a lot more, but what we have is these really codified commercial recipes around 45 different varieties. And it's the lettuces, leafy greens, but it's also the herbs, microgreens, edible flowers. We're about to commercialize a tomato, so people are really excited about that. We have this incredible pepper that's in the pipeline, the Scoville. The hotness is pretty intense. It's between a serrano and habanero. So we can really create a lot of excitement in terms of that breadth. There's a lot of questions though in terms of what went for strawberries. Right. But again, it's just right now we want to optimize for the masses as opposed to just isolated production. So this is kind of a balance, a little bit of a trade off there.

Harry Duran: 00:27:03

Yeah. If you had a blank check and no constraints, can you think of maybe one innovation that you'd invest in today to accelerate the impact of indoor farming globally?

Marc Oshima: 00:27:17

Oh, well, that's even a broader question. And just it probably has to do with. If you're talking about the industry overall. Yeah, I would say. And again, continues to go back to some questions that have been there since day one, you know, over 15 years, which is again, do we have the right workforce, both horticulture standpoint and the engineering standpoint. And so I've had a chance to work with the traditional land grant universities. I've had a chance to work with major organizations like the USDA or the foundation for Food and Agriculture Research and then even globally. And it continues to come up with a question on how are we building that pipeline of the next generation of farmers? And so I think that without question is a key enabler here in terms of the broader industry. So I think that's really important to think about. How do we continue to support that? And so we're excited. At Bella Microfarms we actually have had interns turn into full time employees and advance. And so those are meaningful opportunities to be able to give relevant industry experience that then allows them to say, hey, this is actually a career for me.

Harry Duran: 00:28:23

Here's why that's great, that's great to hear. I may have asked this last time, I don't know when I started it, but that's something I like to ask in interviews is what's a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

Marc Oshima: 00:28:37

So what is A tough question I've had to ask myself. Well, there's lots in terms of again, coming in, understanding the business, making sure, you know, the toughest question, it always goes back to the kind of preaching is around focus. Right. And this is one that's important to understand when to say no. Right. There's lots of things we could be chasing, lots of things we could be doing. There's no question I see huge applications in these other new verticals. We have a huge opportunity to do something within the world of spas. Right. But we said today as an organization, we're going to focus on the four core verticals that we've mentioned. And so it's making sure we don't lose that sense of focus and prioritization.

Harry Duran: 00:29:17

That makes a lot of sense. So there's a lot of talk about the importance and the definition of farm to table and local food. If we look ahead, you know, five, 10 years, do you think that's going to change? You know, and you think micro farming is going to play a role in how people understand about this concept of like local food? And what I thought was interesting when I discovered, when I heard about it is you could call something local, I think if it was within 100 miles. Or there's some weird definition of like local food versus like hyperlocal now is the term people are using now. So obviously.

Marc Oshima: 00:29:52

Yeah. So unfortunately there's not a good definition still on that local. Some have it defined at the state level, some at the region level, but there's nothing that definitely says now the consumer, if you do research, you know, it's typically said under 100 miles. But that's, you know, really very much hyper local. But now it's like, you know, ultra local or hyperlocal. You know, we have been highlighting even our own communication about the Babylon. Right?

Harry Duran: 00:30:15

Yeah.

Marc Oshima: 00:30:16

The on site, you know, farming on site, you know, literally the idea that the farm is with you. Right. We've worked on messaging, like we bring the farm to you, you know, so it's like right with you. So there's things that we're trying to create even more distinction and differentiation there. You know, there's words, you know, the idea, if you think in the world, within the world of culinary, you have, you're preparing a dish a la minute would be like, you know, right at the moment, you know, and we're saying harvest element. Right. So the idea of hyper, hyper, that's just hyper.

Harry Duran: 00:30:50

The actual table, right.

Marc Oshima: 00:30:52

The idea to elevate that further now, I mean, and we're Seeing our customers embrace this. An idea of going further. I mentioned that we're seeing our farms not just in the kitchen, but in the dining room. But we're also. So we're at the JW Marriott Mall America. Our farm that we have there is actually in the bar. And so we're talking about that farm is growing specific herbs for, you know, the bar menu in the culinary. Creating the theater right there. And so it's a different connection and different immediacy. It's creating that excitement there. And so, you know, I think the closer we get to the food, the more excitement we can get and a reminder to people, like, how important that is. And there's so many people who still today say, oh, that's what it used to taste like, you know, and, you know, you were talking about, you know, where are we going to be in the future? I feel like, you know, obviously that generation is going to move on. And when you have that connection, you know, with that moment, that place, that time, you know, you're talking about culture, right. You're talking about your heritage. Then, you know, you're talking about your upbringing, you're talking about values, you're talking about, you know, these experiences. And so what I'm excited about, and literally, you know, I couldn't script it myself even better. But, like, for example, I'll give you an example of, like, when we did these school ribbon cuttings.

Harry Duran: 00:32:14

Yeah.

Marc Oshima: 00:32:14

New York City public school, we opened up at PS 25 in the Bronx. I think about 80% of the student population is Hispanic, 20% African American. The exact same day we went over to Queens, PS62, 80% is Bangladesh and 20% Hispanic. But the words, the principles, and what's great is that they have that support, not just in the dining room, not just at the science teacher, but at the principal level and then even at the superintendent level. But the words they use is that we're going to be able to grow culturally relevant, produce items. And that gets me really excited to think what role we can play in preserving this heritage. And it's a much, much bigger proposition than all of a sudden when you talk about that connection with your food, of course, your memories, your family. Right. And so it's exciting to think about things that we can do from that standpoint.

Harry Duran: 00:33:11

Yeah. Because I think about places that I've lived in, and I lived in Atlanta for a stretch, and there was a huge, I think, Asian food market that had, you know, herbs and, you know.

Marc Oshima: 00:33:21

Yeah. There's big stuff you couldn't find.

Harry Duran: 00:33:23

You could only find there. You know, it's interesting. Who knows where they were getting from and where they were growing it. But this idea of like maintaining that. That cultural connection to food, especially people that have come from other countries, you know, first, second, third generation immigrants doing that, they can still maintain that. That's really exciting to hear.

Marc Oshima: 00:33:40

Yeah, yeah, I think it's really exciting. And how we can play even a bigger impact moving forward from that. Yeah.

Harry Duran: 00:33:46

And you mentioned the. I'm in Minnesota, so next time I'm in the Mall of America, I'll stop by the GW Marriott.

Marc Oshima: 00:33:52

Yeah.

Harry Duran: 00:33:52

And have a peek in there.

Marc Oshima: 00:33:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, so I mentioned we're at Mayo's clinic. We're at Kowalski's Market, though. Talk about the retail. So you can find this, you know, a few different applications. And I think that's. Again, you know, we're at Breck Private School as well. So, you know, there's.

Harry Duran: 00:34:10

Do you listen as a resource to find all the places where you're available on the site or.

Marc Oshima: 00:34:15

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I encourage everybody to follow us on social. It's one of the best ways to be able to see both what we post. But there's such an organic excitement from our partners in terms of showcasing, look what we just harvested. Look what the students just made, or look what we just served in the bar. And literally the chefs have embraced that. So our feed and the feeds of our partners is probably the best way to be able to get a sense of that.

Harry Duran: 00:34:42

That makes a lot of sense. Do you see that in this current era that we live in, that the marketing, social media is really playing an important role? Because, you know, the more I tune into my feed, especially the Vertical Farm podcast feed, it's like I follow a lot of people that are doing interesting things in this space, and you can see the brands that are, you know, doing it well and cognizant of this buzz that you're building and this excitement and educating. And like you said, your customers are excited to share, you know, their insights. And it seems to be playing like a really important role in terms of awareness.

Marc Oshima: 00:35:15

Yeah, it absolutely is. And it's so important in terms of, again, how do you drive that engagement? How do you drive that connection? And then it becomes, though it's not just us saying it's. They're saying it. Right. It's their words. Right. And how they've been able to, you know, utilize it, embrace it. I think that's so important in terms of the authenticity, the Credibility and then the creativity. I mean, we're seeing amazing use cases that, you know, we might not even thought about. You know, we were at this conference last week, and this fantastic operator chef was telling us how, you know, they've got the mint planted for the mint juleps for Kentucky Derby next week, and then they have the cilantro, you know, already planted and ready for Cinco de Mayo. I mean, so again, I mean, how they're. They just did a major national Gardening Week, you know, activation, you know, with their residents. And so it's so exciting to see. We were talking about some of the public schools, and we're talking about some of the, you know, we're just talking about Atlanta, and there is happens to be a very large Vietnamese. We have a great partner down in Bentonville, Arkansas.

Harry Duran: 00:36:22

Oh, yeah.

Marc Oshima: 00:36:23

Public school. And she just shared with us the most phenomenal banh Mi sandwiches, the Vietnamese sandwiches, and using our cilantro and then our bok choy that were part of the sandwiches. Again, public school system in Arkansas getting behind this and getting really excited about the varieties and the use cases and again, getting far more ambitious than we could ever hope for.

Harry Duran: 00:36:50

It's exciting to see that is good news. Speaking of more awareness for the industry, we talked a little bit at Indoor Icon about the work that CEA alliance is doing. And I'm curious, you know, what you think their role will be. And I know it's still, you know, early days, and Tom's doing a great job spearheading that, but where do you see that going and maybe dovetailing with some of the work that's being done in Washington, D.C. as well, in terms of awareness, you know, how do you see that playing out in the next few years?

Marc Oshima: 00:37:18

Well, the feeling had always been that, you know, you can go further, faster, you know, together. Right. So it's important to have a collective voice and making sure. I think one of the things that's pretty unique in Babylon microfarms, we're in over 40 states. So, I mean, all of a sudden you're talking about, you know, the constituents and this footprint of who we impact, you know, in terms of the conversations that we can engage on the Hill are far more expansive in terms of, again, you know, the kind of reach. And so, again, that's so important when you think about how do you bring these, you know, different groups together? So we bring an important part, I think, to that mix and to that proposition already. And it's important, though, that you have all the voices at the table. Right. And so when we think about being a technology provider, you have actual growers, you have different parts of the value chain represented. But together, under the umbrella of the CA alliance and the stewardship of Tom Stensel, you can have impact and conservative voice. So we were together at Indoor ag. They had their annual meeting there as well. Really important. And then our team took place in the fly in that the C Alliance helped host. And it's important even today we hosted people from Senator Warner's office as a follow up from that. And so what's the most important thing is you have a voice and you have to start that conversation, that dialogue, and you have a lot of different staffers who turn over. So it's important to go back and go back and go back again. So I've had a chance to do a lot of industry work, not only with the CA alliance, which I was the former board chair of in one of the founding companies for, but also I was on the board of directors for the Produce Marketing association, and then the International Transpose association was on the Grower Shipper Council. You know, you put in the time and you can really reap a lot of key dividends, you know, from that in terms of, again, the community, the network, and again, appreciating, you know, the power of coming together. One of the things I was really excited about with the work I was doing with ifpa, particularly on the Hill, was work we did around increasing and preserving the SNAP benefits. So in terms of what was going to be available. And so things have changed pretty dramatically today from that. But even at the time, those are important wins. And it's just a reminder that you still need to show up and you need to make sure your voice is at the table to be able to help drive the direction.

Harry Duran: 00:39:52

I think the biggest indication of how the needle is moving in terms of awareness for me has been conversations with people who have no ties to the industry at all. You know, or just know salads as the greens that come in bags from Salinas. And I'm curious, you know, in the arc of like your career and then even in your latest role, when you step out of our CEA bubble and you start having conversations with friends or other colleagues outside, do you see more an awareness? Do you see more of an understanding? I care for, like, where the food is coming from, specifically, like our produce? Yeah.

Marc Oshima: 00:40:26

I mean, that's what sparked my interest. I was heading the marketing for a specialty food retailer when I first started thinking more importantly about where your food's coming from, how it's prepared and how it's sourced and then ultimately how is it grown. And that's moved from an undercurrent to being embraced by a much wider audience. And so with the advent of social media in particular and the dissemination of information, ease of access to that information, there's a greater awareness than ever before about that. Obviously, major aspect of COVID was putting a major spotlight on how fragile our supply chain is. And I think that also heightened people's awareness around, hey, we need to think differently about some of the food solutions and some of the growing opportunities. And so there's a much bigger movement in awareness. And then you factor in, obviously the macro pressures of climate change, drought, overuse of pesticides, worker welfare, worker availability, all of those factors are making farming even more challenging than ever before. That aging population, that average age of the farmer. So if you don't embrace the technology and you find that the very successful companies that are there in the produce industry are the ones who have embraced change and embrace technology, they've found a way to adapt and a huge part of it usually been around vertical integration so that they can understand each part of the value chain and how they can be able to get value at each part of that value chain.

Harry Duran: 00:41:56

Lots to take in there. I want to thank you again for coming on and sharing what's been happening in your world in these past four years. And it's been nice to bump into you at the conferences. What's next for you, conference wise or do you have a pretty busy schedule?

Marc Oshima: 00:42:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're excited. We're going to be in Chicago for the National Restaurant show, so a lot of our customers and clients are going to be there. So again, it's opportunity for us to showcase what we're doing. But then immediately following that, we're going to be at the hotel show in Dubai. And so this idea, again, I mentioned that we're in five different countries, but the international Runway is quite exciting as well. And so we're going to be thinking about how we can scale even more into some of these other regions. And so, yeah, it's pretty exciting in terms of that pipeline of events and business cultivation that we have going on.

Harry Duran: 00:42:49

Yeah, sounds like they're keeping you busy.

Marc Oshima: 00:42:52

Yeah.

Harry Duran: 00:42:53

Well, thanks again, Mark. It's been interesting to have your perspective here, especially for someone who's been in the industry this long and just to see the ups and downs and. But also to show where the, you know, the signs of promise are in this industry, the success stories and folks like you know yourself and Babylon, they're doing things and succeeding in a way that's providing value and also being good stewards for the industry. And because all this news that gets out there and is obviously good for ca, but it's also good for the local food movement at large as well. So I appreciate you bringing all that experience to bear and sharing some of the things that have been happening in your world lately. So I appreciate you taking the time.

Marc Oshima: 00:43:32

Well, thank you. I appreciate the chance to catch up and appreciate the work you're doing.

Harry Duran: 00:43:37

Yeah, thanks. And where's the best place for folks to connect with you and the team?

Marc Oshima: 00:43:41

LinkedIn in terms of Babylon microfarms and then myself, Mark Oshima, are the best ways to keep track on all of our latest developments.

Harry Duran: 00:43:50

Okay, we'll make sure all those links are in the show notes. Thanks again.

Marc Oshima: 00:43:52

All right, Very good. Thanks.