S8E104: Sepehr Achard / iGrow News - From Finance to Farming: My iGrowNews Journey to CEA

:: 00:00

SEPR A'SHA. Ceo of iGrow News. Thank you so much for joining me on the vertical farming podcast.

:: 00:07

Thank you very much, Harry. It's another bee here.

:: 00:10

So you also go by SEPR, so we might use SEPR during this conversation as well. Where were you calling in from Where's home for you?

:: 00:22

Well home. Right now I'm in France, okay, but I do travel around the world, so pretty much the world is my home.

:: 00:33

Where did you grow up?

:: 00:38

So I grew up in, I was born in France, then quickly moved to Dubai, abu Dhabi as well, where I lived pretty much 17 years before moving to England, where I studied there, okay, and then yeah, since the pandemic, I'm moving around from places to places.

:: 01:10

What's been your favorite place to live in? What city? What's your one of your favorite cities?

:: 01:21

That's a good question. There's so many good cities where I have good memories as well, yeah, but I would say Abu Dhabi, because I've lived like 10 years over there. It's kind of like my yeah, it's where I have a couple of friends, it's where I lived, where I have a lot of souvenirs as well.

:: 01:49

So yeah, I think you may have seen or heard me mentioned that because of the partnership with Cultivated, I was able to go to Dubai in October last year. It looks like I'm going to be returning again this year, so it was my first experience in that part of the world and I think for anyone going to somewhere brand new like that, it's a little bit of a shock. But also, like in education, especially with the way it relates to vertical farming, in terms of how much of their food gets imported. I think the number is like 95%. It's a big number. So what is it about that region where you decided to spend a good portion of your time there? What is it that people don't know about that region or that you really like and appreciate?

:: 02:46

Well, I mean, at the time where I lived there, I just followed my parents because they were working there, so I just followed them around and had no other choice. But ultimately, what I enjoy the most about that region is the fact that they are open-minded.

They're open to innovation, they're open to different cultures, they don't have any sort of second thoughts on new innovations and they're ready to bet on the risky technology as well, and which, ultimately, I mean, sometimes it fails, sometimes it succeeds, but usually when it succeeds, it succeeds in a big fashion, and so, yeah, that's really what I enjoy about that region.

:: 03:46

And so, when you came out of university, what was your thoughts about? Were you going to be working? What industry are you going to be working on? I don't know that at the time, you had any thoughts of vertical farming.

:: 04:01

Well, I graduated in a bizarre era because I graduated during the pandemic, so even during the. I've heard of vertical farming before, but it was just some random news documentary that I've seen on YouTube or some random news channel, so nothing special. But in my last year of uni I had sort of worked to be done. Where I had to look into it was a module for supply chain. I had to look at one industry supply chain and I decided to look into agriculture and obviously I saw the problems that were before the pandemic and little by little, I've looked also into well, the potential solutions that were brought, because obviously, when you figure out the problems, well, what is the solution that you're going to bring?

And little by little, I came across vertical farming, start looking deeper into it. This is where I met Herbert Kligerman, who is the founder of FireGro News, and then a year was gone past where I had different experiences, working in finance mainly, so nothing to do with agriculture. But I just got bored of it. I got bored of, like, working with numbers and things like this and I decided to work in something that ultimately impacts everyone, regardless of who we are, regardless of our background. That's agriculture. And so, yeah, ever since, here we are.

:: 06:04

Talk a little bit about the first time you got connected with, or how you started that conversation with Herb.

:: 06:16

It was mainly questions that I had for my work, so nothing too serious. I was just asking what are the companies that I can contact, whether it be in England or whether it be in Europe, some of the recent news discussing some of these things, and then that was pretty much it, like there was no serious contact. There was no like oh yeah, let's get together and launch a real media and so on, like launch the iGro News platform. And yeah, then a year has gone through and I randomly well, he messaged me, I think and then we had a nice chat and then we started working together, working to improve whether it be the websites, the looks, the type of news as well, that we were to share. And yeah, that's how everything started.

:: 07:28

Did you know what you were getting into in terms of, like, the ongoing responsibilities and how much work it would be involved to keep this going and growing it?

:: 07:43

No, I was expecting some degree of work, some degree of like, perhaps complexity, but not as what happened and I like risks. Ultimately, when you go out of uni, you start working and it's kind of your first experience and you end up managing a news platform. It's always a risk, but I enjoy taking risks. I think that you don't grow without taking some risks at some point in your life.

:: 08:30

So yeah, what was your childhood like? If we were to look back, would we see examples of pointing back and like, oh yeah, there's a p. He took risks there. He took risks there. So now that we see that what he's doing now probably not too surprising.

:: 08:52

Well, one of the examples is when I decided to go and England to study, because at the time, I wasn't absolutely not fluent in English. Like my English was like the typical stereotypical French dude that was mumbling a couple of words, and it was a country where I had no relatives, no friends, nothing. So it was completely new for me. I was 17 at the time and, yeah, I mean it was a risk, but yeah, that's one of the examples where I decided I'd rather take the risk than just living in comfort.

:: 09:39

Yeah, there's something to be said for pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, because I think what happens is you demonstrate and prove to yourself what you're capable of, and I think a lot of times we're capable of more than we think. And when we put ourselves in those situations, you know, we're pleasantly surprised that we can actually get the things done. That might have seen that something that was a big hill to climb. So now that, how many months or how much time has it been since you've taken over the main responsibilities for IGRO?

:: 10:15

In August it's going to be two years. Yeah, it does fly.

:: 10:25

So, as you think about what you were getting into when you started, what have been some of the ups and downs, some of the challenges of reporting on the things that have been happening in the industry. There's no shortage of news, obviously, is some of it good, some of it not so good. But also, you know, how do you think about your role in terms of telling the stories of what's happening in this space and what have been done? What have been some of the challenges for you and for IGRO?

:: 10:57

Ultimately, it's finding data. This industry is very nascent, so there's very little information compared to other industries. I mean, like an industry like finance, for instance. You pick any news. I can guarantee you you can write a whole book on that Vertical farming. It's different Because it's so novel and because it's so different from what has been in place since ever.

I think that one of the main challenges was to find data, credible data, reliable information that can be proven, and also connecting the news. Like when I write an article, what I enjoy to do is connecting dots. Like writing an article on a company that raised X amount of dollars or a company that partners with another company. Okay, I mean, it gives you one information, but that's pretty much it. Like what is the background? Okay, like what markets are they expanding in? Why is that? Like linking to other events as well that may have a cause or an effect leading to this partnership and that, ultimately, this investigative approach and analytical approach is something that I want to have at IGRO News.

And another challenge that, in my opinion, affects everyone in the news industry is just being unbiased. When you look at mainstream media, when you look at even other media source, usually there is some sense of it being biased. And that is problematic because ultimately what you want is to give the information, give the complete picture and then leave the reader essentially make his own opinion on the matter. And I think that way too often a lot of news source and a lot of news outlets, they're kind of influencing in the opinion that people will have on a particular subject and that's why you pick a random topic. You go on Fox News, you're going to have one opinion. You go on CNN, you're going to have another. You're going on ABC or whatever, you're going to have another. And that's problematic.

:: 13:52

Where did you learn that approach? Is that just from reading the news yourself? Or is that something you picked up in university or doing your studies about, or in terms of your investigation in terms of how to best present unbiased news?

:: 14:09

Kind of both, I would say. Obviously, at university, one of the main criteria that was considered was critical analysis. So that obviously influenced in my work that I do today and has a role to play. And also it's just like who I am. I like reading news. I like I'm a curious guy. I don't take anything for granted, I like to view things in other perspectives and I like to uncover other perspectives. Yeah, that's just how everything happens.

:: 14:59

It's this it seems like you have this interest in investigating and getting to the root of the story, and I've seen some of your in-depth coverage as well. So for the folks who may not know, I Grow, can you talk a little bit about what the current model is, how you've organized the newsletter and the different issues that you put out and what's covered?

:: 15:25

Yeah, sure. So let's say, the main aspect of AgroNews is the website where we release news around. Well, since January we've decided to expand beyond control and environment agriculture and talk about everything AgTech and AgriFoodTech, because we think that everything, at the end of the day, is interrelated and I cannot get my head around the fact that some companies, they want to have these sorts of continents separated by an ocean of, you know, ignorance and, in some degree, ego as well, and so yeah that's the main aspect, and then there are other.

There are two newsletters that I have on Substack. One focuses on indoor farming, where I do the case studies and where I do the analysis and the in-depth reports, and the other one focuses on AgTech, where I talk about everything in agriculture, whether it be plant science, whether it be case studies, ecosystems, investments it covers it all.

:: 16:47

How much time goes into putting these together?

:: 16:56

To be honest, I don't count my hours. I just work around the clock. I mean it takes a lot of time, that's for sure, but ultimately, when you're passionate, you don't count your hours. I mean it's something that goes naturally and you just vibing, you know.

:: 17:24

And have you been able to get help now and assistance with the newsletter from other folks and building out the team?

:: 17:34

Yeah, so we've hired interns and as we're growing and as we're expanding as well, we're going to hire more people that will focus on different aspects, whether it be social media, whether it be the newsletters, whether it be writing the articles as well, or handling the websites.

:: 18:02

Where do you see the most potential for growth in terms of the organization?

:: 18:19

In my opinion, the big growth that we can have would be in data crunching and creating this sort of data, and obviously we share a lot of news Within that news. You have different data points that you can create. When a company announces a funding grant, you have the funding amount, you have the funding stage, you have the investors that participated, you have the location of the company where they want to scale, you have the names of their board members and you have all kinds of data points that you can use and leverage. And, ultimately, I think that that's where we may and that's where we will expand in the coming months and years is in creating this sort of database and creating a good platform where people can visualize this data in an interactive way.

:: 19:24

So I think this would be a good chance to dive into what's been happening in the space, because, as someone who reports on the news, I'm sure you have an opinion on all the things that we've talked about Recently. You've mentioned I think it was in this week, today's or yesterday's this concept of saturation in what we're seeing in terms of CEA. So I'm wondering what you're seeing with the proliferation of news that you cover. How do you feel when people mention the topic of CEA being saturated? What's your take on that?

:: 20:05

Saturated it's perhaps in terms of the brands that are created. In the last months or years, you've had a lot of companies that were created and they created brands. So I mean you get a whole bunch of them and when you pick a lettuce, for instance, it's more about fashion. Now, like you have different brands, you have this lettuce that comes from this company, this brand, and so it's pretty much saturation in terms of like okay, at the end of the day, it's a lettuce, it's not a piece of clothing, it's not a new iPhone, it's not a new. You know, and I think that we're talking about having too many brands, too many companies that pretty much do the same thing and, at the end of the day, compete with each other, and also with the times and with the fact that there is a lot of issues in terms of like, the cash burn rates of certain companies, they end up eating each other out. So also.

:: 21:26

I think what's interesting is I can see where your point about.

From a consumer standpoint, it may be hard to differentiate with all these brands and obviously, when you think, even when you think about shelf space, like if you go to any supermarket, like I go to the supermarket, I'm in Minneapolis so there's not a lot of indoor farm share, but I do see revel and they've taken up, you know, a pretty good portion of the display with the remaining the traditional companies from Salinas.

But I think there is going to be a challenge in educating people who are new to vertical farming about the benefits and also being being able to differentiate, because if they just see lettuce and clamshells, lettuce and clamshells, lettuce and clamshells, you know how do you as a company, as an indoor farming company, demonstrate or show what the difference is? And obviously taste is important, but I think you know to your point it's going to be harder and harder, or there is a hard road ahead and I think there's a lot more education that's going to be involved and I'm wondering if that's something you think about not only reporting on what's happening within the industry, but also being a resource for people who are new to indoor farming and also to learn and being able to discern in terms of what's a good company, what's a good service and how to take those first steps into vertical farming.

:: 22:47

Yeah, and that's why I try to simplify the way and explain it as simply as possible, because obviously not everyone is aware of what's going on in vertical farms. Not everyone understands LEDs or nutrients or pH or whatever it is, so I try to make it as simple as possible and, at the end of the day, facilitate the understanding of the news so that they understand that there is this company that does this, or this company is, you know, creating another, another facility in this region. And okay, what will it change in your life? Will it mean that you're going to have new jobs? Well, yes, there's going to be hundreds of jobs created. There's going to be more investments in your state, you're going to have access to fresh and local produce, and it's, in most cases, is going to be tastier than what you're used to, especially if it traveled thousands of kilometers or miles, depending on where you are. So, yeah, that's the sort of actions I take in order to facilitate the understanding.

:: 24:18

Something that you've talked about recently is the increase in activity that's happening in Virginia. So can you talk a little bit about why that was a recent deep dive for you and what you're seeing there?

:: 24:33

Yeah, I mean we've picked up a number of companies that launched projects, that raised funds, that acquired other companies, the fact also that the state introduced this CAA month as well, the fact that there's been some new grants. Again, you add all these data points together and you get this sort of heat map where you see that, for instance, virginia was getting perhaps it's not red hot, but it's getting hotter and hotter as time goes by and as more news accumulates coming from that state in particular.

:: 25:19

Are you seeing other regions in terms if you think of it as a heat map that are similar to what's happening in Virginia or where there's increasing activity Regions in the United. States or in the world? Yeah, actually in the US, but also, yeah, abroad.

:: 25:40

In the US. We've seen a wealth of activity in Pennsylvania, so Virginia as well. We've seen some in Texas and then in to some degree in Washington state, so near Seattle and so on, in Nevada as well. And in terms of other countries, I mean we're seeing a lot of activity coming from the Middle East, as you may have seen in the recent weeks. We've seen some degree of activity coming from Asia and the Pacific Islands, Japan as well, South Korea, India as well. It's a country that we don't talk a lot about, but there are some activity going there and also new countries that are starting to emerging. I mean, we hear a lot more about Mongolia, we hear a lot about Kazakhstan, countries in Central Asia where no one talks about, but there is immense need because for I don't know, perhaps eight months a year it's like minus 20 degrees outside, so you can't grow anything. They have to import all their produce, so they need to find new ways of producing. And, yeah, that's the sort of countries and regions where we see a fair amount of activity.

:: 27:21

Do you see certain companies recognizing those opportunities and those patterns and looking to maybe start to establish a foothold there? Or do you see companies that are coming up, that are homegrown, like companies from India, that are seeing the opportunities and are starting something there? Is it both? Is it a combination? What are you seeing from your end?

:: 27:45

It depends on the country. In India, it's pretty much more from the country, like it's local companies that are creating their vertical farming or indoor farming business or greenhouse business, and that's understandable. I mean, they have all the resources, knowledge, the raw materials to create and to be self-sufficient. And in terms of other countries, it depends there's a blend of both. We're seeing some companies that are trying to expand in companies from the US or from Europe that are expanding in new markets.

Sometimes I would argue that they are. It's not necessarily the wrong markets, but perhaps they're. They're maybe taking a lot of risks expanding this quickly and this with such a scale. And yeah, I mean ultimately certain companies like when I see certain companies expanding and going in new markets, whether it be with establishing facilities, partnering with local companies, it feels like they're like I mean it's a weird way to put it, but they feel like vultures trying to scavenge on the remaining of that meat, and so maybe it may not be the right solution, because sometimes they're expanding because they want to save their business and they think that they're going to save their business, which in most cases they won't be able to, because it takes a lot of investments and a lot of capital to expand in new markets, especially if you have a completely new technology like vertical farms and so yeah, so, speaking of moving too fast, I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the recent closures that we're seeing and that you've been reporting on in iGrow.

:: 30:06

So there's been a couple that have been high profile. So I'm curious what your take is, what you're seeing as you put these stories together in terms of do you see a common thread with these closures or do you see each one has got its own story? I'm curious what your perspective is on those.

:: 30:26

It's pretty much the same background every time. It's always companies that have raised millions of dollars that have a model that is just capital intensive. They burn through cash out of faster rates than central banks and, yeah, I mean, their whole model is based on like, investing, raising funds, investing, raising funds, investing, raising funds. And ultimately, if you're a business, you got to ask yourself at what point do you become profitable? And in most cases, that's perhaps a question that they haven't asked themselves.

:: 31:15

Is that something you see from reporting? Is that something you can maybe not publicly, but privately or with the team start to predict? When you start to see behaviors or you start to see actions by certain companies, are there signs from your perspective that they're headed down the wrong path?

:: 31:36

Oh yeah, I mean usually when the one particular sign that we've seen in recent months and recent weeks is when they try to raise funds at extremely close intervals. So perhaps they will announce a series D and a series E within three months or within six months.

Okay, that's the first sign of like, okay, you're burning through cash, now they may have, like, a new project, they may have an occasion, they may be able to convince investors and so on, but at the same time you know, it's the first sign of, yeah, you sense trouble. Then, obviously, when you start seeing people on LinkedIn from these companies saying, hey, I'm looking for a new job, that's also a new or another sign of something's definitely going wrong with them.

And then also when you look at like market trends I mean when you look at like investors pouring less money in general, not just in CEA but in general when you see investors or when you see interest rates being hiked at such a high speed, obviously at some point you can expect that these companies that are capital insensitive, they may either slow down or, if it's a heart landing, they go bankrupt.

:: 33:17

Essentially, I'm wondering what you also. The other thing that I've noticed is also that you're reporting on the stock prices of a lot of the publicly traded companies, and do you see any correlation between the companies that have a dependency on performing for their shareholders versus the privately held companies? Is there a distinction between the two?

:: 33:45

Ultimately. I mean, there is, in general, a distinction between the two, but perhaps it's not really seen in vertical farms, since it's such a nascent industry and most of the companies have less than 10 years, so they don't even have like a, they don't have a history compared to other companies and like. Ultimately, what we can see in terms of like, it's the fact that when they get public, as they're young companies, they're like risky bets, essentially for investors, whether it be stockholders or institutional investors, and so they obviously try to reassure. So they do a lot of marketing, they do a lot of communication around the fact that, yeah, they're signing deals with this company and that company and that company and so on and so forth, and like yeah, that's the sort of behavior that we see with publicly traded companies in this market.

:: 35:03

Shifting gears a little bit in terms of the opportunities in this space. You report a lot about some of the new technologies. There was a company you talked about recently that's working with plasma gas, I think, to increase the yields. Where else are you seeing innovation happening in the space in terms of new tech or new approaches or new designs or anything that that's new in the space for the purposes of increasing yields or increasing productivity in the space?

:: 35:37

Well, definitely AI and automation and robotics. I mean that's pretty much the main news in recent weeks. Ai has definitely a lot of implications for vertical farming or for CEA, because it enables a lot of new things to be done, it facilitates some work, but, again, I mean it needs to be used proportionately. If you use AI or automation for the sake of using automation, it's not going to yield any results for you, and so, yeah, companies and growers they need to be aware of. Like, okay, doesn't make sense, I'm going to invest in a robotic arm. But does it make sense? Why would I invest in a robotic arm? I don't have the production for it. The return on investment is in like 30 years. Why would I invest in this?

Other than this, I think, like plant science is definitely something where there's a lot going on, whether it be with this technology that you mentioned, using plasma to protect seeds, to treat seeds so that they grow in better conditions and, at the end of the day, increase your productivity, whether it be plant breeders that tailor seeds specifically for vertical farms or CEA, or a wealth of other technologies and innovations that are used to protect the plants from infections, to increase the growth rate of certain plants.

So, yeah, these two particular, these two particular segments are. There's a lot going on. But I think that, again, I like to think of innovation in general, not just in terms of technology. I think that a lot of people think of innovations just in terms of technology, but at some point there will be a sort of plateau, because that's just the way it is. You look at your smartphone. I mean, for the past 10 years it hasn't evolved a lot. But innovation can come also in the way you work, in the way you manufacture your equipment, in the way you source your equipment, and that, I think, is an area where not a lot of companies focus on, but they should, because ultimately, it saves cash and it increases your production, so it decreases your costs as well and, at the end of the day, it increases your reach because you can afford to lower your prices as you scale.

:: 38:58

So, from the perspective you have and the input of information in companies and happenings in the space, where are you seeing the most innovation happening right now?

:: 39:13

In terms of country or in terms of.

:: 39:16

Just in terms of the industry, you know, is it on the technology side, is it in the crops, is it in the science that you mentioned? I'm curious just what your thoughts are or what you're seeing.

:: 39:28

Technology and crops. So yeah, as I mentioned, everything related to AI, robotics, plant science, regarding crops, crop protection, nutrition this is where we're seeing a lot of activity To some degree as well, the softwares as well, whether it be to control the farms and so on, but it kind of slowed down in recent weeks and, yeah, that's sort of where we see the innovation these days.

:: 40:07

When you think about the work you have cut out for you at iGrow and the plans for how you're looking to grow. What's a tough question that you've had to ask yourself recently?

:: 40:28

That's a tough question, well, whether to expand beyond vertical farming and to talk about other things related to agriculture in general. Obviously, some people may think that vertical farming is vertical farming and if you talk about vertical farming, you should only focus on this. I don't think so. I think that, at the end of the day, agriculture should be an ecosystem where every technology and every segment whether it is CEA, whether it is food tech, whatever it is there needs to be some communication, because at some point, there may be some synergies that can be found.

Plant science is a perfect example. The innovation hasn't started because of vertical farms. It started since hundreds of years ago, but we use vertical farms to leverage the innovation that plant science companies have and are making on a day-to-day basis in order to enhance their production, in order to enhance their crops. I think that in the future, people will need to think of agriculture as an ecosystem and not like these sorts of continents, separated, where there is no communication, there is nothing going on in between and no one wants to talk to each other because of this or because of their ideology or whatever it is. That's it.

:: 42:23

In terms of visibility for yourself and for IGRO? Do you have any plans to start making it out to some of the conferences?

:: 42:32

Yes, I will be attending a conference in Poland at the end of May Food Tech Congress. I will be attending also the indoor Arctic Summit in New York.

:: 42:50

I'll be there.

:: 42:54

I plan on going to Dubai once again in October, but nothing is confirmed yet. That's just a plan.

:: 43:07

Having started to branch out into attending these events in person, it's definitely a different energy and it gets you excited about the opportunities that are there. You start to see all the companies that are in the space, even indoor IGCON I went last year. It doubled in size this year and that was the 10th anniversary of this show. It's interesting to see all the new players in the space and I'm sure for you just probably make sure your head spins to think about all the companies to cover and all the topics to cover. Usually I come back with these conferences with more interviews and you're probably going to come back from these conferences with just more stories to report on, which I think is going to keep you busy for a while. So, as you think about the future of what's possible and your experience in this space, covering it for the past year and a half, if you had to think about what has you most excited about the potential or what you see as exciting developments in the space, what comes to mind for you?

:: 44:20

Well, put it simply, it's just the potential that vertical farms and CA in general not just vertical farms, ca in general has to touch billions of lives. Yes, in some cases people may argue, yeah, but we need to find staple crops, we need to find ways to produce wheat or cereals or different crops like this. But at the end of the day, if you can produce leachy greens, aromatics, flowers whether it be for edible flowers or ornamental or cosmetics or pharmaceutical, you're going to impact billions of people, no matter what. And you may as well save a lot of agricultural land that can be repurposed into becoming forests, into allowing other forms of agriculture, and that's where the ecosystem think is important. It could allow, for instance, more cereal farms to become completely organic. It may allow for more regenerative agriculture.

Yeah, I mean at the end of the day, even if the main criticism that I hear about CEA is that it's only leachy greens, tomatoes and aromatics and a couple of flowers here and there. If you look at the global market and your total addressable market, that's already more than that's trillions of dollars for market value. Because you're talking about the cosmetic industry, you're talking about the pharmaceutical industry, you're talking about all these industries that, at the end of the day, face problems and they have problems to solve and so, yeah, that's really exciting about the CEA industry.

:: 46:27

Yeah, and I think that sort of excites me more and it gets me excited to have these conversations, because the more you dig into the space and the more you look into it.

And you know, I started with my interest in vertical farmings and you know learning about container farms and some of these bigger spaces. But then when you see the possibilities and the fact that it's so early and there's so many folks, there's people making mistakes and companies closing, but there's also companies, you know, figuring out good business models, figuring out you know the cost and managing their expenses wisely and going into spaces. You know, just from a CEA perspective, I think little leaf farms just announced that they're expected to generate I think it was $100 million in revenue in terms of output, and so you see a lot of stories, especially from the greenhouse space, because that's been, you know, a more established industry and I think a lot of folks from that space are coming into vertical farm specifically and there's a lot of lessons to be learned. There's going to be probably more partnerships, more hybrid opportunities as well. So I think you know, just equating what you said, we really are in early days and I think people need to remember that and just to kind of take all these stories with a grain of salt and just figure out.

You know where the opportunities are and I think it's an exciting time to be in the space and I appreciate the work you're doing and I know coming into the space as a newcomer is something that's you know presents its own set of challenges, but I get the sense that it's something that you've become really passionate about and are excited to talk about on a day to day basis.

:: 48:02

Oh, yeah, definitely.

:: 48:05

So for folks that want to connect with you, it's I grow dot news. Anywhere else you want to send folks to connect with you and learn more.

:: 48:15

Well, the URL is our growing newscom, yep, but otherwise we're present on LinkedIn, facebook, twitter, instagram. It's our growing news and, yeah, for now that's the platforms that we're using, and we're also present on the sub stack, obviously. I got the indoor vertical farming newsletter and the Act Tech news. Yeah, so these are two newsletters where I just talk about all these subjects that we've just covered right now, and so, yeah, Okay, we'll make sure all those links are in the show notes.

:: 48:58

I appreciate you taking the time and sharing a bit of your story with us today, so thanks so much.

:: 49:06

Thank you very much, Harry.