S9E115: Neda Vaseghi / Microclimates - What Gets Measured Gets Managed in Vertical Farming

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And I can close my window if you feel like there's noise outside.

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If it gets too bad, I'll let you know and we can take a pause.

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Okay, so another.

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Vasige, ceo of Microclimates. Thank you so much for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast.

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Thanks so much for having me, Harry.

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So regular listeners will know that I always like sharing the story of how we got connected and we met at Indoor Actek, nyc, which seems like such a long time ago, but it was probably a month, not a month and a half ago, I guess. Since it's been there, tell us a little bit about how you arrived there, and obviously we've got a lot to cover in terms of, like you know, microclimates. But I'm curious how you found the conference and what your experience was there.

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Yeah, definitely. I was introduced to the conference a couple of years ago and we actually hadn't attended in the past, and one of the conference leaders reached out to me and said you know, we're interested in what you guys are doing in the space, especially as a startup. We have a number of startup podiums available. Would you guys be interested? So we kind of start diving into what the conference was about. And you know, years ago I had seen their nice beautiful brochure that they have with all the different companies outlining on it. I remember thinking to myself I really want to be in the part of that brochure, I really want our name to be there. So it was really exciting to attend and it was well worth it, well worth the event.

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Could you summarize the experience for someone who hasn't been to Indoor Actek NYC?

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Yeah, I'd say, in comparison to the other events that I attend, it's first of all it's in New York. That was great, it's all exciting. You know you're in this very energetic city and then there's a lot of really executive levels. The conversations were very meaningful. I always kind of gauge these events by quality versus quantity, and if you have freebies that you're giving away and they're still left at your table, then you know you're at a good show. When you had quality conversations and it wasn't about you know, swinging by to grab one of your freebies products which we love giving to everyone out there it's just that I think the conversations were very in depth and meaningful.

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The folks who are on listening to us on audio can't see that I'm holding up the little microclimates laptop cover which I have. Yet obviously it's in my hands.

I'm fed around here, but I just happen to see it here in my desk and I'm like oh, I still have that for months it's a little privacy thing and it's an interesting point because it is a higher ticket price point and this is my second year attending and I think there is something to be said for the caliber of folks that attend and rethink events the organizers From what I've seen with other events they do and the experience that I've had the past two years, it's really professional, it's really well run, it's really keeping things moving. I love the fact that it's a single truck, so it's a different experience than IndoorEcon and they're both. You know they both have their advantages. I actually had a chat with Suzanne Prueh from IndoorEcon. She was there as well, so it's always nice to see people from other conferences supporting each other, especially in this industry, and I think she's a great. We love working with her and I really got a feel for that.

People were getting value not only from the content, which is always a plus, but the conversations, as you were mentioning. You know the fact that you had people come in and you had a whole row of your peers who were also in startup mode. You know being able to share their new innovations as well. So did you get to meet any of the folks who were alongside you in that space?

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We did. Yes, yes, yes. Actually, one of them is here locally in Seattle. It was really nice. Yeah, I really loved how they shined a light on the startups, because it is innovative right and oftentimes for startups, we have to you know, we blend in, we do our best to blend in and we do our best to showcase ourselves as this very, very, you know well-established company.

And it can be challenging at times, and I'd have to say that the fact that they had this venue of startups people who were coming to us were coming to us intentionally, right. They were looking for that new innovation, they were looking for companies that are agile, that want to make quick decisions. I can work with them, think outside the box, so there was an intentional conversation, which I really appreciated.

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And talk to me a little bit about how you ended up with you know prior to microclimates. I looked, I was looking at some of your CV on LinkedIn and so you have a lot of experience in food and especially with your last company. Without going through your whole CV, I'm just curious if you can give sort of like the 30-second recap of, like you know, the previous jobs you've held and sort of like leading their way up until you know that 2019 timeframe you were starting microclimates.

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Absolutely so. The quick recap would be I started early on in food microbiology and I just happened to be at the right place at the right time. I happened to be a university of Washington. It was shortly after the Jack in the Box outbreak that everyone probably knows about, the Audrella outbreak. It was very similar to this industry actually, in the sense that it was new up and coming, where we'd go to events and there would be like 15 or 20 booths at the most or tables not even booths but tables and I got started in food microbiology and just fell in love with this concept of oh my gosh, there could be pathogens in food that could make us sick.

So I was had this passion for how I was trying to go into pre-med and decided early on that was too much school for me. Looking back on it Maybe I should have, but that was it. It was more about how can I help the community and public health perspective. So I fell into food safety and spent majority of my career in various roles, and the reason why I ended up here is because I sort of noticed this trend. I was doing a lot of traveling to California, florida and Texas, a lot of agriculture, and I noticed this trend of oh my gosh, we're really faced with this issue of not having enough arable land, and there is this thing called indoor farming, which I didn't even know. This called CA at the time and I had an opportunity to take a huge risk and leave the corporate world after 25 years and go on my own and give it a try.

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Prior to microclimates. You were at Miro, Nutri Sciences, is that correct?

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Yeah, I was at Merriul Nutri Sciences. It's a French company, merio, I think, is kind of. Merio Sciences. They're a global company with laboratories at a global level one of the best out there in the industry and I managed a team for a while in sales and then I ended up at the career in Merge's Deny Acquisition where I was responsible for supporting the acquisition of other companies out there.

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What were some of the takeaways when you look back at your career, if you think of the things that prepared you for where you are now. What were some of the highlights that come tonight?

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Yes, yes, the business acumen, for sure, you know, having spent so much time on the sales and especially because after I left the technical side I got into sales the business acumen and just being able to read people, I think it teaches you a lot about interactions and face-to-face interactions, being able to read your audience. So I think that that side of it has definitely prepared me for this role. And also, taking no fun answer, you know, I took no fun answer all the time when you're in sales. So you sort of begin to build, you know, a thick skin, and when you come onto the start-up side, I didn't realize how many folks would say no to our idea. So but it helps you kind of build this thick skin.

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Where did that come from? Is that an inherited trait?

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Good question. I'd say yeah, I was born in Iran myself and I left Iran during 1985, during the Iran and Iraq war, hence I have a slight accent. So yeah, it was. You know. We moved to the country. I was only 10 years old. I was limited to assimilate to the country, to the culture, learn the language. So I think a lot of that really thick skin and sort of you know proceeding, moving forward, that determination was built into my DNA at a very young age because I was only three years old when the revolution occurred. So I remember the war and what it was like to leave the country and how hard it was to leave the country and then come into a foreign country where you knew nothing about the food, the culture, the language. I think that really has helped me in shaping the person into the person that I am today.

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Yeah, I could see how that would have a profound impact on you. What's interesting is you know people who are younger may not understand and know what a vibrant culture Iran has and there's pictures of like discotheques and like people really dressed up and really like enjoying like a vibrant cultural community and livelihood, and people can't think of Iran that way and I wonder if there's stories from like your parents or your family about what it was, what life was like that then oh my gosh, no, you're.

:: 10:04

I first of all thank you for acknowledging that, because most people are not aware of what Iran used to be like. You're right, it was completely vibrant. I see pictures of my family and my parents and I always, you know, give my mom a hard time about how short her little skirts used to be, like mini skirts in the 60s, right, well, like super short I make used to birth and then meet mom. Not only that, but it's so rich in culture, right, rich in history, our food. You know so many languages spoken in Iran and it's still a beautiful country and the people are still amazing. It's just, unfortunately, it's a government situation that has impacted them. But yeah, it's, I don't know, it's just, it's beautiful. I still go back. When I go back to Iran, you know, when I smell the food and the bakeries and the bread, it just warms my heart. It's a rich country with lots, you know, thousands, of thousands of years of history.

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Yeah, yeah, probably more when you think about the birthplace of like civilizations, and some of the you know go back to like how you know that's one of my favorite radicals ancient civilizations, because they just keep discovering like older and older stuff that like 4500, 6000 years ago, like you know, go back to Tepi and Turkey, and so that's one of my sort of passions about exploring that. So I think you know, hopefully that you know over time people will truly discover, you know how important you know Iran's place in like, the birth of like civilizations and cultures and languages really, really is.

:: 11:44

Absolutely, I think it's. It's most people don't realize. We share a lot of words with the French. We have a lot of similarities. You know, I have great fond memories of being a kid in Iran and going to Shamal, which is north of Tehran, and it's, it's just tropical and beautiful, and then you can go skiing and even there's just so much you can do and you don't realize that Iran is not, you know, a desert, that is, it's got multiple climates and yeah, so it's beautiful and we have really rich soil actually for pistachios and dates and you know we have some really great soil for a lot of different food sources out there.

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Yeah, really interesting.

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So I invite the the listener to do a little more research and learn a little bit about the culture, because I think they'll be pleasantly surprised.

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So you know as you're. You know in your time at Miro, the jump to entrepreneurship is never an easy one, and that's someone who's owned my own business since 2015. I can tell you it comes with a lot of ups and downs for anyone who's tried to go down that path, and a lot of people don't make it. So you know, it's clear you had the drive and it's clear you had the, the education and the passion and now the understanding of what this industry was looking like. But it's never an easy decision. So can you talk a little bit about the origin story of micro climates and how you got that off the ground?

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Yeah, definitely. I'd say. About two years before I actually left, I've been toying with this idea of what can I do on my own, how can I go on on my own? And I toyed around with multiple things to do but never settled on anything.

My current business partner, lauren West we've been friends for many, many years. His wife was actually my doula, we have, you know, our family friends were very tight. We were actually at a party and he said to me I asked him. I said hey, what happened to that company you were starting? What would you do with it, lauren? And he said well, you know, he's probably one of the smartest people that I know. He's like I've been building this stuff and I want to do stuff with indoor farming, and where is it? Are you selling anything? He said, well, no, we haven't commercialized it and we are talking.

And, long story short, the conversation led to what are you thinking that? How are you doing with your job? You know we never talked about our jobs. We've always had this beautiful friendship, first relationship, but we never actually talked about what. I know what he did for a living and you know what I did, but we never talked about intersecting with you and the conversation, one thing led to another.

And the next thing, you know, we said, hey, let's get together and talk about this in a month or two. We got back together and he said are you serious, are you really thinking about this? And he's had a startup in the past and said do you know what this is going to take? And we had lots of conversations and we actually got together one night and signed what we call a friendship agreement, which meant that our friendship always comes before this business and if we ever got to a point where things became agile in any way, we'd go get therapy and counseling so that we could work through that and this friendship was not going to be impacted. And that here we are and we work through our ups and downs and you know, knock on wood, we have a great relationship and work really well together. We're the yin and the yang. We're really great together.

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So that's an amazing story and the fact that you were cognizant enough to create that friendship agreement and understand that that relationship that you've built up with him is something that's more important than anything you would do after and you wouldn't want to do anything to damage that. And so I don't think a lot of people go into business, think like that or don't value the relationship or don't understand what can happen in business, because anything is possible. At a previous conversation with someone today who's having some challenges, with someone they try to partner with, and it's really, you know, you just never know and I think putting that friendship first and foremost is so important. I think it's a really great thing that you guys did and I'm kind of glad that you shared that. I'm curious how you two met.

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Yeah, there's a good story there too. We actually. I know his wife from many years in the community, so I personally started going to Burning man myself if you're familiar with Burning man, which everyone is nowadays, because I went in 2014 once.

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I've been once with my ex, with you.

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Yeah, oh my gosh, we were there the same year, no way.

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That's what I need to think about, you know knowing what happens and how crazy and it's a wildyou need a lot of prep, especially if you haven't been there the first time. We bought a van specifically for that, so it was a wild, really fun experience and I definitely recommend anyone who's got the tolerance for being pushed out of their comfort zone. Let's give it a try.

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So good. Did you camp at the New York camp?

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We camped with a. No, it's actually a San Francisco camp, it's a cosmic Eagle.

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Okay.

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Yeah, and they're on the, they've been going for at that time ten years and so they've got really good placement. So they were like on the inner ring, about like one or two streets away from the center of, from the playa, and so you know, it's just amazing, amazing experience and nothing can prepare you for what you're gonna experience out there and you literally have to show up with Everything. The only thing they sell you there is coffee and walk and ice and literally everything else you have to bring in and take out, which is you leave it. I think we, I think it's Leave it as you found it, exactly as pristine condition. We were not at all take away from yours. You're your experience there.

We had a little as we were leaving. You know we have to. The campsite owners are like how to leave before us and they're like you literally have to walk in a grid over every inch of this and pick up like a feather. If you see like a, like anything like that you can spot with your eye, that's not native to the desert. You have to, you know, back it up and take it with you.

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So Very unique experience, but I'm interested to hear what yours is like, yeah, what they call it, the radical self-reliance right, and you're right, the moop, which is you don't leave anything behind. There is no, there's not even a glitter, and you can actually get scored of how well you leave your camp.

an. I think my first year was: 2001

So I was very young when it was only like 20,000 people would go back. I don't even know what it is now, but he was fairly small to compare what it is now. And so I was in my, you know, late 20s the first time that I went and and I had seen his wife all the time at parties. She's a great dancer, I love to dance, I can pretty much down dance all night long and I'd see her and her and I would always be, like you know, closing down the DJ and which. I know that you are, and I love your music. Yeah, thank you.

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Yeah, we managed to share that love of electronic music. I that's one of my first passions, djing.

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Yes, I've had some good you know good times of listening to your podcast and your to your DJ. Actually, why I've been biking, which is my Okay.

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The sound quite page.

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Yeah, it's great. So, anyway, so a little, robin and I his wife and I had known each other for many years. And here we are a burning man and I don't remember what year this is, though it was a while ago and and I talked to Robin at, even though she had a husband, because I always see her dancing by herself and I was on this man comes up to me and I'm putting on a pair of like white platform boots and he says to me hey, hey, did you get that a value village? He knew I was in from Seattle up north and I'm thinking this is the most awkward conversation ever. Value, for those of you who don't know, is a secondhand store and if you're a burner, that's what you shop because you don't want your coast to get destroyed. Yeah, and I said In, as a matter of fact, I did. I purchased those. Why would you know this? He goes, I almost bought this for Robin, but they were half size too small. I said Robin West, yes, how are you guys related? He said she's my wife, not on.

Robin and I had known each other, but we hadn't. Actually, you can hang outside of you know parties together. So next thing, you know, we camp together. That year we hit it off and this like love affair just started and I fell in love with Robin, his wife. She became one of my best friends. And then what? When I got married, you know, we quickly introduced Robin and Lauren to my husband, kyle. And the next thing you know, you know we're now. I see the grandchildren, so it's a really sweet relationship.

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Thank you for sure. It's such a fun story and to have that History and that friendship there. I could see why you know you want to make sure that. You know You've developed that relationship and that friendship and there's nothing you'd want to do to damage that. So make sense that you would Put in that agreement. So you know, how did you come up with with the, with the concept originally, and is it the same when you started the company to what it is now they're offering?

:: 21:40

Yeah, the concept was Was was initially it was mostly for the cannabis market, because the cannabis market in Washington State is, you know, it was one of the first states to go alive and he started back then by Lauren and his son. But Initially it was more of a hardware that we're building at, some hardware with some software. But once I came on board, which was the end of 2019, november 8th 2019, was my last day in the corporate world. We you know Pandemic 2020 we quickly decided that, you know, we needed to kind of shift a little bit, and the reason why, for the major chef, is because we actually launched one facility that I brought on board when I came on board and the hardware that he had been making just didn't do well in in an operation.

en't plugging it back in. And: 2020

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And for folks that are not familiar with micro climates, what is the current offering and who is an ideal customer?

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Yeah, the current offering right now is environmental automation. So, a technology company, we provide environmental automation and I'd say what's unique in our secret sauce is that we're more focused on integrated controls, meaning that we integrate various systems together onto one dashboard and all the data is harmonized across all of them. So the customer. You know we're hardware agnostic. And what was your other question?

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The team will fix this stuff. Don't worry about it, Because I just like having it on mute just in case there's any background in my end. Ideal customer.

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Like the customer. Yeah, yeah, our ideal customer is ideal customer is really someone that's starting out. But, if you know, it's easier to work with the customers that are just starting out, right, because we can point them to our hardware partners that are ready to go. So the plug and play solution we have all those solutions At the same time. We have a lot of customers who already have systems in place and they've had them for five to 10 years and they're realizing you know what? I have to have another dashboard, or I can't get these systems to speak to one another. Can a company come in and integrate all the systems together so that they can speak to one another? Then then we can provide that solution as well. So they're both great customers to have. I just think that the first one, which is someone that's starting out, is easier on our end and it's a quicker sell.

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So when you talk about the pain points that farms are facing we talked a little bit about this when we were indoor act in my sea and the multiple systems that people sometimes frankenstein together from different countries with different connectors, and I think, the more and more I learn about the industry, it's interesting how resourceful farmers are when they want certain pieces of equipment in their farm and they figure out ways to work them together. And I think for people that are outside the industry, they may think that it's all just everything's plug and play and everything works seamlessly together and that's not the case. Were you surprised by that, neda, when you first started discovering and learning more about these farms?

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I was actually yeah, I was Lauren because of his technology background. So you're bringing somebody like myself who's got a science background, but somebody who has a very solid technology background. So for me, because I didn't have that technology background, I was really surprised. I didn't realize that all these companies make one thing and they do one thing really well, but either they don't have an open system, they don't have an API, you can't connect systems to talk to one another. I was actually really surprised at how silo everything is in an operation. Yeah, and I had seen that actually in my role, but it was from the more of the business side where you had like a CRM system that maybe didn't talk to another system. I'd seen that to some degree, but I didn't realize how painful that is for an operator in the CEA world.

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So, now that you've been having conversations with clients and you've actually got systems running in farms, what's been the reaction to people who have worked with you? And when you think about the pain point they had before, what was it about microclimates that made them decide that they wanted to work with you? And then what's been their experience? If there's a couple of clients that you're working with that come to mind, you've got a good start itself.

:: 26:45

Yeah, definitely, definitely there's. Actually, probably, by the time you fix this podcast up and it's launched, you're probably going to see a white paper that's going to be released. And it's our relationship with Lethbridge College in Canada. Lethbridge College is one of the largest colleges in Canada and they have a greenhouse operation and their experience was that they were using a different system previously, a system that I won't name the company, but another great company out there with many, many, many years in the industry, a very robust company, but they felt like they couldn't customize their system, they couldn't integrate their system, they couldn't purchase, for example, sensors from company A to pull into the system so that they could be cutting edge at all times and adding new sensors and new automation. So their experience and Dr Nick Sabadavis is going to be coded in this white paper that's going to be released here soon.

He really talks about his experience sort of his limitations previously and how this system has really opened up the possibilities of always thinking ahead and bringing in new systems to integrate into the system. So we're right now in the process for him, specifically of working with him on DLI, something he really wants to do. He really wants his lighting to go to a new level and be based on DLI. So we're working with him on that, working with Cornell University for their LASI, which is our algorithm for this whole DLI idea for lighting smart lighting, essentially. So it's fun to talk to customers who've had experiences in the past and then they try it out and they say I really like how nimble and how agile you guys are and I like the fact that I can integrate this whole system together.

:: 28:39

For the benefit of the listener if they're not familiar with DLI. Can you define that?

:: 28:44

Yeah, daily light integral. Basically, it's the amount of light that you're planting. It's the best way to look at it is. You can really become energy efficient also in the sense that you know your plants need so much light. You don't necessarily have to give them during the peak hours and you can turn your lights off and then turn your lights on during off peak hours for energy consumption and also making sure that your plants and your output of your crop and the yield is where you want it to be.

:: 29:15

I've also noticed that you've been making more of an effort to be more present on LinkedIn with your videos. Nice job with those.

So, I think what's and I've seen from some of the feedback that people are finding it helpful. Do you feel, because of the nature of some of the tech involved and some of the integration challenges that farmers face, that that education is helpful, and do you feel like it's educating people who are watching or listening or reading on things they may not have been aware of or challenges they realize they're going to face as they start to integrate these systems together?

:: 29:52

Yeah, yeah. So this idea of being on social media, which was new for me. For the record, I have a very dear friend of mine who had a very successful exit strategy. I also went to Burning man with him.

:: 30:07

And so it's all being tied together. Yeah.

:: 30:09

Oh, not. Yeah, I also can't with them. I was talking to him actually a couple of months ago as one of my mentors and he's much younger than I am, but I reached out to him and I said hey, andy, he was at Adobe after the acquisition of his company and he's back to startup again. I said help me out, and how do I do this? How do we get the microclimates name out there? And he really advised me and he said you know what?

Microclimates doesn't necessarily have a name in the industry because you're still new, but your face and your knowledge is going to be well served in the industry, so make sure that you start this thought leadership and talk about topics that are important for the industry. So back to your question has it been well received and helpful? Yes, it's been so fun posting and getting emails and chats and text messages saying thank you for that. That really helped. And then for me to say what else do you want to talk about? Because I am not the expert, but I sure know who to go to. I can go to my business partner when it comes to technology. I can go to my own contacts for food safety. So it and it's been fun, because I really hope, I'm hoping, that Lisa's positive feedback so far is that it's really bringing quick and dirty, under two minutes, some knowledge to the industry, to people to think about, as they're talking about either food safety or environmental automation.

:: 31:36

Do you find that you're getting better at it? Are you getting more comfortable doing this?

:: 31:41

I am getting more comfortable. They're still uncomfortable. They are still uncomfortable, but I feel like I'm getting better at just quickly, you know, picking a topic and talking about the topic, and I'm finding that the less I think about it, the better they turn out. When I'm getting my head, then I just you know, then I become too technical, which is where my level is right. I like to be technical and I have to just step back and say what is the audience need to hear? It's not about the technical aspect, it's what does it mean to the operation?

:: 32:19

And you do these in one take.

:: 32:21

I can try. Well, no, it's interesting because Well, it's not this, never one take. I try my best. They're usually. So far they've been about like six or seven of them and then. But I don't write a script either. I find I started to in the beginning and I found that it was just I couldn't read a script and I would lose my train of thought. So I usually just write down like four or five bullet points and just start talking.

:: 32:47

Makes sense. Yeah, I mean, it's always a good thing. I took some public speaking classes as well, training, so it's been very helpful because it's one of those things that's similar. You know when you're up, whether you're on camera, whether you're on stage, you know there's something that happens to you and I think it's not a natural human inclination to be in front of people talking. It doesn't come. Maybe for some people it does come naturally you know people who like to perform but for I think, for most people, I remember, like even with the training, I gave a talk one time and by the time I was done I could almost felt like I had a fall of cotton in my mouth. That was so dry, I was so nervous.

And I remember like I was sweating and I've gotten better over the years, but it's something you need to work on and something you need to kind of restrain.

:: 33:29

So bad. I have a story about this one minute pitch that I tried to do early on in the startup and I practice and they only give you exactly 59 seconds. I practiced it. I practiced that so many times, Harry, and when I got on stage it was the worst thing. It was the worst experience ever, to the point that my girlfriend was my best friend texts me afterwards and she goes oh, I'm so sorry about that, that's not a good reaction.

It was like an out of body experience and I remember thinking oh my gosh, how did this happen? I can't even articulate my words. What just happened to my brain and my physical being just lost?

:: 34:16

Yeah, that's weird what happens. Is this your first time in this? You know role.

:: 34:20

It is. Yeah, we give ourselves titles. You know, when you're a smart company, you can call yourself anything. Yeah, I am in the first time in a CEO role, but I have to tell you I say this to my business partner If we ever got bought out, if we ever had an investor that came in and said, hey, I think that I could help accept your business by having a new CEO. No problem, Step right away.

:: 34:44

I'm so curious when folks are in the first time leadership role and there's a lot of things that you hope you have good guidance from and a good team from, and you've mentioned a couple of times and referenced some mentors. So, as you think about your development over the years, and especially with this new role, are there people who have been helpful for you in a mentorship role?

:: 35:06

Oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes, yes. So one of my mentors is Dr Mansur Samadpur, who is an owner of a food safety laboratory here in Washington state, and I've known him. I mean, I worked in his laboratory when I was in my you know, I think I was like 19 years old when I'm working as that but we were working with I believe it was I'm pretty sure it was a Jack in the Box samples back then, stool samples from children who had been sick. He's he's been a great mentor to me. And then you know, from my days of M&A, I have great mentors in M&A role that have helped me out. And then there's been some beautiful, amazing people in this industry who just just getting to know them have stepped up and said how can I help you? Like Randy Shipley, there's been multiple who just step up and they're like what do you need help with? And they've become my advisors, which is really, really amazing. It feels it's a beautiful thing.

:: 36:10

That's great to hear, so as you think? About the future for microclimates and you think about, you know maybe a roadmap and where you're seeing development of your offering, opportunities for possible partnership, or you know features, what comes to mind, you know, when you think about. You know, obviously in this industry, years, a lot, so maybe just even six months you know what's what's top of mind for you that you can talk about. Yeah, yeah.

:: 36:38

Yeah, yeah. And then you're right, this is the industry which I love because it's moving so fast. And again, it reminds me of food safety. You know 20, something 30 years ago, so it's the same concept here.

The big focus that we have right now is regarding energy usage. We have noticed, and you know it's you have a lot of companies that are either fighting for chapter 11 or going into business, and then you get talking to some of those folks and you understand that ultimately, energy especially for CEA your two highest sources of energy use is your lighting and HVAC systems. But really understanding energy on a granular level is really, really important. So we're making a huge push right now on the energy aspect of having an energy application with wireless devices that would actually sort of be behind the panel so you can really understand the granular level how much energy is even your equipment using, or how much energy is your light versus using versus your HVAC, and then how do you adjust that so that you can become more focused on your, your resources? You know reducing those resources energy and water at big ones for us right now with wireless.

:: 37:54

What's interesting is that when you think about you know what I, what I saw when I was there at InternecTech NYC, and the fact that you have this sort of panel and sort of like a dashboard, you know, kind of like your cockpit of what's happening. And it's important because you think about it like these are the metrics that I need to know, like what you know, how these different systems are performing. But I think this aspect of their energy consumption, because of where we are in this industry, where we are in this timeline of like using so much and it being a top concern from an expense perspective, I think, adding that component, and then the fact that you need that mobility because you're in a farm, and adding the wireless devices, and so that's really what I'm trying to clarify. I think it's an interesting combination. So do you find, as you, as you talk about these features and this capabilities, that that farmers are getting excited to learn more?

:: 38:43

Yeah, definitely, the energy one was definitely. I mean the more farmers we're speaking to right now. We're waiting to hear back. We're working with another company and if the grant goes through, we might be able to to provide this energy monitoring to the more under resourced or under I don't want to call it privileged, but under resource communities. We're going to help them out first. But, yeah, definitely there's an excitement that's being built around the ability to be able to measure your energy usage and then wrap that information so they can actually automate your operation based on the energy as well. And then the wireless. For sure that's another exciting project. Well, it's the project that we start working on last year, but it's an ongoing project, which is how do you incorporate lower land sensors, which is the long range wireless sensors that can communicate you know the size of football fields without interruption? How do you incorporate that into this so that all of a sudden, your sensors can be wireless, your controls can be wireless with that interruption?

:: 39:48

That makes a lot of sense. You did mention under resourced regions. Can you talk a little bit about the work you're there, you're doing there and why that's important to you?

:: 39:56

Yeah, yeah, definitely there is. You know there are ruler America. You know there are lots of regions in this country alone that, believe it or not, and I used to travel to these areas when I was in food safety like, for example, you would have lost Hills, california, where Palm wonderful, you know, the big, wonderful pistachios have their facility and while you're driving there, there's no reception and in some of those areas, even clean water. Believe it or not, drinking portable water is an issue. We don't realize that when many live in these you know cities, we don't realize how much of our country is under resourced.

So our focus right now and even not just the US, but even at a global level because we have some projects potentially in Indonesia at a global level, even when you look at areas where they don't have, you know we're used to just picking up our phone anytime, right, we have wireless connection everywhere, we have access to everything, but there are lots of parts in this country alone who don't have that. So our focus is partnering with different companies like Trilogy Network and a company called VIA as well, these two companies that bring on the infrastructure and the foundation of that so that we can help. They bring on the more digital transformation aspect of it. And then if there's farms in those regions whether it's indoor or outdoor, because we're beginning to explore also outdoor agriculture then we come in and build our application, have our application sit on top of all that, so these rural America also then has the same access to digital transformation that maybe folks in major urban cities have access to.

:: 41:45

Is it surprising for you when you think about all the different places you have to have your hands in when it comes to this, what you're offering Because you talk about?

Initially you think about it from a monitoring perspective and the fact that you're tracking what's happening there, but that's dependent on the signal that you get, and then the ability to connect with different systems, and then, if they're in far-flung locations, you know wire is not an option and then you have to look at wireless technologies.

And now you have to start you've mentioned a couple of providers there and how to understand, like, the different nature of what happens. And this is top of mind for me, because we just had our internet app updated here and now I think the latest trend is to do repeaters, or just extenders, what they're called, in different places, and so now it's the same Wi-Fi signal, which I thought was interesting, but it's working off three different repeaters. So it's fascinating what's happening in this space and you know there's probably a 5G rabbit hole for people who are worried about that, but we can focus on some of the benefits that are happening for now. But you know, define that like you're having to educate yourself almost on a daily basis of what's happening in various industries, not just this one.

:: 42:49

All the time, harry, all the time, all the time. I did not, you know, spend one of those aha moments where you go from food safety to technology and you realize, okay, I mean technology, I got to learn the technology, you know verbiage, and you kind of get used to that and you realize, okay, it's, everyone needs to have internet connection for our system to run. Oh, okay, great, everyone needs to have internet connection. Then you realize, wait a minute, not everyone has internet connection and if they do, it's interrupted all the time, it drops all the time.

The one thing about us is that our system is what we refer to as edge computing. Our system actually sits on premise, so even if you lose your internet connection, the system will continue running right. But at the same time, you have to, you know, you need to have solid internet connection for you to be able to access the system in a way. So it's been a real eye-opener and you know, and every as an entrepreneur or startup, every second of the day, is something different, something new. So it's also very exciting because I have to continuously learn, like nonstop. I think I'm learning probably a faster rate than my eight-year-old daughter is right now.

:: 44:05

That's so funny. What's a tough question you have to ask yourself recently.

:: 44:15

Yeah, tough question I've had to ask myself recently comes down to following my heart or finances. Right, my heart is in this. I love what we're doing, I love what we've built, and I think every startup founder, co-founder would say my baby is the prettiest thing ever. Right, we have to all. We always get excited about what we're doing.

Then there's the other side, which is I left a very lucrative position that I had worked really, really, really hard to make my, you know, work my way to those positions. I mean, I had to really work hard for those as a woman, really had to work really hard. So, you know, and I left a very lucrative role. I was making a lot of money. So that's been the tough question for me recently. It's oh my gosh, do I keep chasing that because I could go back to that, I could make a lot of money, or do I follow my heart and do what I'm doing with this, cross my fingers that will either get funded or will grow on our own and will be in a position where I can say all right, I'm now financially comfortable. So it because it's. You know, it takes a lot to leave that world and we had a lot of discussions with my husband about what is this going to look like? Maybe not one income for a short period?

:: 45:38

Yeah, those are not easy questions and, as someone who's been an entrepreneur since 2015, it's sometimes feels like you're having those more frequently than not, you know, and then you feel like you need to get to that point where things are starting to like turn around, and obviously in an industry that's as exciting as this one, you know there are a lot of ups and downs and probably a lot of all starts as well.

So I think you know, I encourage you to, you know, to stick it out to the point. That still feels like a passion for you and it's something that you believe in. And I think you know you have you're onto something here and I think it's something that's applicable for anyone, any size farm, greenhouses, not just vertical farms, and so there's, you know, applications and benefits, and I think you're on the right path and you're making the right partnerships, and so you know to the extent that it's still comfortable for you.

I would encourage you to continue on the path. It's one of the reasons why I started the podcast, because I saw what was happening in the industry and I was like this is exciting and I want to learn along the way and learn at the same time. My listeners are learning. It's not easy. I mean I will, and for anyone who's who's started on the path of entrepreneurship, you know there's lots of ups and downs and you have to be comfortable with failure. This is the other thing you know and you've got a bad thing, it's failure.

I used to think like, oh, I spent thousands of dollars on this project and I was like, oh, it didn't work and I feel disappointed and dejected. Just put, over the years, you come to realize it's more important to take imperfect action. You know and be, and a failure is just another opportunity to just get up, just to you have to just get up faster. That's what happens. You just duster yourself faster and you're like, okay, that didn't work, let's go. Let's go Like we got to try something else because it's and it takes a while to develop the entrepreneurial muscle.

:: 47:13

Totally and stopping with those failures is what I've learned and saying what did you learn? Every single failure, every single one of them, has a learning lesson in there, and even if even the contracts, for example, that we didn't win, every single one has only helped us flourish to the next level, like every single one of them has taught us to come up with something better. So, yeah, I mean, my heart is still in it. My heart and my head are still in it. Sometimes my pocket questions it that I've learned, but I've definitely learned. You know, I've lived a very simple life in Iran. Moving here, we didn't have much money at all.

And I paid for all of my own college and my graduate. I paid for everything, so I know how to pull back. It's just sometimes like do I want to pull back at this age?

:: 48:05

Yeah, that's definitely a challenge.

Well, as we, as we wrap up, I've been leaving some space at the end of these conversations for any messages that you have for your peers in this industry, you know, obviously as you attend these conferences and they start to meet some of your your fellow business owners and entrepreneurs who are, you know, we're all working towards the same path and we're still in the space of really there's really not a lot of competition space, even though there's companies that do the same thing, but there's a need, there's a demand for what everyone is working on. So you know, is there anything that comes to mind for you in terms of the message that you have for folks in this industry that may be listening?

:: 48:50

I keep going back to what I was comfortable with, which was food safety, right, and I just think that we can't give up. I think we're at a point right now where we've seen a number of companies closed down like I mentioned earlier a file for chapter 11, whatever the situation has been and it can, it can be, it can be defeating at times, right? So I think my message would be like now is the time to be nimble and quick and to think about our resources and how do we shift our business so we're profitable, maybe rethinking about, you know, spending millions of dollars on the upfront capital, but just slowing down. You know, and I always refer to as the crawl, walk run approach.

I think too many of us have been focused on building the next greatest vertical farm that can showcase the best, or building the best technology that can do X, y and Z, and it can be all AI related, and I would just my message would be yes, those are all beautiful and exciting and that's where we all want to go, but I just say, you know, crawl, walk run, let's build this out, because our future population needs this.

I mean it's. We don't have enough arable land. We're going to be in. Food security is going to be an issue and we all need to just kind of slow down and build this together so that we're profitable, we're staying in business and we're making a difference and following our heart, because I think most of us are in it, because our heart are completely, you know, in it and we can't get there for running right off the bat because of slow down. That would be. My big message is it's just be nimble and quick and slow down and think about your resources before you start building things out. There's a lot of good conversations in your AgTech around that as well.

:: 50:46

Well, I think that's a very important message and I think that the tone of that and then the intent behind that message was repeated on every single episode. I think it would still be a good thing, because I think people still need to hear it, because you hear a lot of people getting in over their heads with making plans for crops that are not being asked for just because they're sexy, and just then realizing that maybe that wasn't the model, or not realizing that their expertise is in being a tech company without any expertise in forming. We've seen examples of a lot of people and thankfully some folks have pivoted and have been able to kind of turn the ship around. But I think those words are going to resound strongly for this audience. So I appreciate you making time to come on. I always value it when guests spend an hour of their precious time on this, on this show. So for folks to learn more, we'll send them to microclimatescom. Is there anywhere else you want to send folks to stay connected with you?

:: 51:45

First of all, thank you, by the way. Thank you for having me, so I really appreciate being on here and it's fun chatting with you. Microclimatescom is probably the best, and then our LinkedIn profiles are great places. We spend a lot of time mostly on LinkedIn. We're starting to work a little bit on Instagram, but I'm finding that LinkedIn seems to be the place where there's a lot more interaction with like-minded people.

:: 52:10

So thanks again for your time. I really appreciate that chat today.

:: 52:14

Great, it was great seeing you again. Thank you.