S9E120 Karla Garcia / Hort Americas - From Microgreens in Mexico to Educating New Indoor Farmers

:: 00:00

So Karla Garcia, technical service specialist at Hort America's Mexico and CEO at Micro Greens, Thank you so much for joining me on the Vertical Farming podcast.

:: 00:11

Hi Harry, Thank you so much for having me.

:: 00:13

Where in Mexico are you calling in from today?

:: 00:17

So right now I'm in Hermos EU, Sonora, so it's very close to Arizona.

:: 00:22

Okay, and how Cold weather. It's a little colder here, so I'm sure you're getting a bit warmer weather than I am.

:: 00:30

Yeah, we don't have out in here, so summer.

:: 00:34

So where is home for you?

:: 00:37

Here's my hometown.

:: 00:38

You're born and raised there.

:: 00:40

Yeah, I'm still here.

:: 00:42

What was life like? If you can take us back a little bit and you know growing up there. What are some memories you have of growing up there?

:: 00:49

So here is a kind of small town, but not a lot of traffic. You know Mexican people is very warm. I have lived in the United States too, but since the beginning I wanted to start my own business. So that's why I decided to come back and just try to do something for my hometown. That's why I'm still here and now trying to make things also for the country. So it's a nice city. It's not the best weather, I would say, but we have the beach really close, so it's yeah, and so you mentioned this desire to open your business.

:: 01:24

Is that a desire you've had since you were little, this idea of being in business for yourself or being an entrepreneur?

:: 01:30

That's a good question. Not really. When I was little, I loved science. I was very, very little, but when I started to study I'm a biologist, by the way so when I started, I started my career as a biologist, I found that a lot of people were like asking me like how are you going to live? Like what kind of job are you going to get? And I love plants and I love plant physiology, so I decided to put my knowledge on what is more practical. So that's why I moved to agriculture and working there, I decided to start my business. So yeah, Okay.

:: 02:09

So when you went to university and you were studying, that passion for biology and plants is that something you remember from early on?

:: 02:16

Yeah, At the beginning I liked all kinds of different organisms, but when I was studying is when I found out about plant physiology, which I think is very interesting. I mean, other organisms can move and find a place where I don't know, they can have shade or something and plants cannot move. So they develop a lot of very interesting stuff inside of them. So that's why I really liked the topic in Science at Beginning. I started working in it was an eco-physiology lab at that time and from there I started to move to agriculture.

:: 02:55

And so, as you started to work in this field, did you think about the jobs you were going to have when you're in university and you think about what you're going to apply to and where you'd like to work and what type of careers where you have? How did that change if you think about, like, what dreams you had of the type of job, or your dream job, when you're in university and how that's developed and evolved over the years?

:: 03:16

So when I started I was thinking on working at university, you know, like a faculty member of the university, and I think that's the way they structure like the biology career. I mean they went to that. So that was what I was thinking at the beginning. But I really find, like some issues when doing research, at least for the site in the biology area, that a lot of research is not very practical and at least here in Mexico, for example, if you want to get funding for a specific research, you need to show how that research is going to help something right.

And for the community, not only for the ecology, which also is really important. But from there I started to think about okay, I need to do, not only do science, but to do something that I can prove that is helping in any kind of business. So that's why I changed In the middle. I wanted to do like a PhD and everything and I started actually a PhD, but on the way I really wanted to work on industry and to let the people on the industry know what people do in research is doing which is the thing that I do right now.

That's my job right now. It's trying to connect what the people is, I mean the scientists are doing right now with the growers, which I think there is a huge bridge between these two groups. So that's why I decided to change when I was studying.

:: 04:49

Is there any history in your family with like farming or horticulture? I'm curious how this thinking of you as a little girl maybe like what were some of your inspirations growing up.

:: 04:59

Not at all. My father is a chemical engineering.

:: 05:02

Okay.

:: 05:03

And my mom is. She studied like very similar to biology, but with chemistry, Okay. So I did have the background of science, but not farming at all. Right now my father he's already retired and he's farming in a small, in a small place that he has. But from my, I mean when I was a child, I didn't have any kind of family member working on farming.

:: 05:25

Yeah, and what was it about as you started to learn more about plant physiology and then, obviously, we can talk about your as you started working with horticurus. What was it that kept pulling you in or kept fascinating you? I'm sure the more you learned, the more you became fascinated with all the dynamics of how plants work and how they respond to their environment and how they respond to different stimulus. And I'm sure that how was that experience for you as you learned more about how the nature of how plants work actually?

:: 05:55

So when applying knowledge, you get to know a lot. I would I love to analyze data, for example. So every time that I have data from my business or even from other people's business because we do also consulting for me that's really exciting because you get to know, like, how the plant is behaving and what things can you do inside of the greenhouse or the plant factory in order to adjust everything. So that, for me, is really exciting. But other area that's kind of different is teaching. I really enjoy teaching and look how the people use the information and find a way to succeed on projects. So that's, I think, is the most important job that I have right now and it's what is making me like more happy about my job.

:: 06:43

So talk to me about how you became connected with the group at Hort America's and how that position started.

:: 06:50

So that's a funny story, because I met Chris, which is the director of Hort Americans, in one of the meetings that I was presenting my research when I was in grad school. So Dr Shari Kubota was my advisor, which is a great researcher, so she introduced me to Chris Higgins and when I finished and I moved back to Mexico, I pulled some pictures about my small microgreens facility and he started asking me like, oh, are you starting a business of microgreens? And then we started a conversation and I made a video about the farm and everything and I shared that with him and I started to use the lamps that Hort America's sell, and with great results, and I think it started there. And then I ended up being a technical service for them.

:: 07:40

And what was those early days at Hort America's? What were your responsibilities and how has that changed over time?

:: 07:46

So at the beginning I was just solving questions from customers, like just getting emails, and I mean I love that kind of job because you can help people. But at the same time I was doing short courses here in Mexico by myself and I started to think like we can also do that, and I was also like uploading pictures, like trying to teach more. So then we started to do a combination of what I was doing here, also with Hort America's, which I think is making the technical service way more complete. So we started with videos at the beginning. We have a YouTube channel and I was really exciting about uploading videos.

I'm not the best like recording myself speaking, but at least I wanted to share information. So I started to create a lot of videos and we found that people really like that kind of information. And then we moved to the short courses. So we started with just solving questions from customers to provide videos. We developed some guides so I would say we like to write guides about how to grow tomatoes or microbeads or different crops and then the short courses and now we're moving to consulting. So I think we have been growing a lot on the technical side of the company and that is something that may work to make us different from other companies and people like come to us and you know the events just to tell us like thank you for all the information that you are sharing on the social media and on the web page.

:: 09:19

For the listener or the viewer who's not familiar with the services that Hort America provides, can you give a brief overview of everything that's available on the website with the services?

:: 09:29

Sure, we focus a lot on everything that is related to control environment agriculture in hydroponics, so we manage different products like lighting. Lighting is one of the products that we sell the most, and we also focus on fertilizer and substrates, some sensors too, along with the technical service. So that is something really special for us. We don't want just to sell products. We want people to find the tools to use the products and be able to sell them by the one, based on their knowledge, rather than we convince them to buy the products. So that, I think, is one of the objectives of the company. So we sell products and we have some services too.

:: 10:09

What type of questions do you typically get from people that are submitting to you? Is it first time farmers? Is it companies looking to get started? What's the general mix of the questions and the technical support?

:: 10:22

that people are looking for.

I think it's a little bit of everything, but mostly more like commercial growers, we get a lot of questions about the use of fertilizer most of the time. That's why I develop, we have a guide, we have a lot of videos, because we really feel like the need of teaching how to use fertilizers. Like people, I think it's used to just read instruction and just follow whatever is written on the fertilizer, but sometimes you need to do a little bit more right, like to check the water source, just the fertilizer and the management through the cycle. So we get a lot of questions about that and also about organic production, and we have also an organic fertilizer. So we also get a lot of questions about how to manage this fertilizer over time. Organic production can be a little bit more difficult than traditional, but very helpful. So, yeah, I think that topic is one of the most common ones when looking to the emails and questions.

:: 11:23

So you mentioned you had been doing some work with your own farm. So if we could just also rewind the clock a little bit back, I'm curious about your inspiration for starting your own microgreens company. How that came about?

:: 11:35

So when I was in the University of Arizona where I was doing my master's degree, then I learned about vertical farming and the use of artificial lighting with Dr Sherry Tagoda. So when I came back to Mexico, I really wanted not just to start a company and, you know, like, start to make money, which is important, but I wanted to make something different and find a way that I can teach people here in Mexico like things that I know people know a lot. So actually I started with a short course of greenhouse design and at the same time, I was developing my own company and I really want to like to invite people to see what I was doing. So I think that the reason why I started it was that I mean to find a way to teach people how to produce food in a different way, inside of the cities.

Of course, at the beginning I was struggling to make business because I live in a small town. We don't have a lot of restaurants here. So at the same time, I was like teaching the short courses, to try to push with the name of the micro-release company so people get to know about the company too. So that's the way I started, but the main purpose of the company and until today. I think it's the same purpose, because now I connect my company to Puerto Rico's, mexico, and people can come and see. Now we have like a showroom for the micro-release and people come to see the business and the micro-release business is still small but it's profitable. So, yeah, that's how I end up with the micro-release.

:: 13:16

I'm curious about your choice of micro-greens, and I'm just curious about it from a cultural perspective, because I, and maybe it's different I'm wondering is that a common crop in Mexico or is there a bit of a learning curve for people to understand how to incorporate it into traditional Mexican dishes?

:: 13:32

So that was the challenge, because it's not common at all. I mean here's common for restaurants, I mean chefs know the problem. But people I mean regular people that go to the supermarket. They didn't know the product, so at the beginning it was only challenging, but I decided to start it because it was the cheapest way to start. I mean, it's not the.

You need way more money to start a greenhouse and produce the lettuce, and that's something that I teach now, because I know a lot of young people that they want to start like a small business but they don't have a lot of money to start.

So that was my case. So that's why I decided to start with a small micro-greens company and I knew at the moment that it would be difficult because I mean, I have the restaurants but I need to teach people what micro-greens and the difference between sprouts and all those kinds of things. So it was challenging at the beginning, but I think it took me like one year and a half to get people to recognize the product and to be more relaxed in terms of the business. I developed products that I know people here in Mexico, for example, people look a lot for like healthy products or products that can be, like you know, from a natural source, that can be helpful for diseases. So when I was doing the micro-greens production, I started also to grow wheatgrass and to do you know the extract and the chuds. So then I took the pension. From then you know the normal people that go to the supermarket and then from that I started to know a little bit more about why you know these are the micro-greens and you can also eat them.

:: 15:08

Sounds like there's a lot of education involved.

:: 15:12

Yeah.

:: 15:12

Well, at the same time, all the challenges that come with running your own business the marketing you know the operations and all building that. Did you have mentors that were helping you? You know figure out some of those challenges along the way, because it's a lot of being an entrepreneur myself. I know there's a lot of moving parts and having your own business and you have to wear many hats and sometimes you have to do boring stuff like accounting and sometimes you have to do marketing and sometimes you have to do you know the actual farming itself. I'm wondering what that's been like for you.

:: 15:42

You need to learn a little bit about everything and a lot of things that you don't say. I mean things. That's that in your school they don't teach you right. So I didn't have a mentor like for the business, but I read a lot like tons of books about how to manage a business and how to don't give up on the beginning. You know, like like trying to show you up yourself. So, yeah, I didn't have anyone like like teaching me, but I'm very curious about any topic, so I, for example, for social media, I found a way to like really learn about Facebook and.

Instagram, because right now that's really important. And now I'm mentor for other people. That is in other business, not related to horticulture. You know my friends, some of my husband and I teach them how to use these tools. Yeah, the Vina, I didn't. I didn't have anyone to reach, but every time I go to conferences I try to speak with people and it's not like I have a one mentor, but I try to suck information from people.

So that's something helpful too. It's really good to connect, you know also, for example, with Chris Higgins, like obviously ask for advice on how to manage a company, but I don't have like a one person to reach. It would be great.

:: 17:00

If you had to give yourself advice or someone who's starting a similar type business, now that you've you know, you've got all these the years of experience and you made the mistakes and you learn what to do and what not to do, and I'm sure you're still learning along the way. But if you had to go back and maybe give you know 2018, 2017, carlos some advice, what advice would you give?

:: 17:24

One that is like related to the business is you need to organize everything before starting. I mean, how much work are going to produce? Where are going to sell the product? Like different options. You know the one with the top price and also the last option that you want, but you have to have the option too. I think that's really important. You need to like really structure everything at the beginning and sometimes when we have an idea, it's like, oh, I had this idea, and we start and we end up doing all the structure at the end when we are like having problems. So for me it was kind of that way. So right now, when I provide consulting for the customers, I do that for them. Like let's see which is your area, how much can you produce in one week? Where do you want to sell that product? So I think that's really important.

And other aspects that are not like related directly to the business is you know your mind, how is your setup? On these kinds of situations? You need to have a lot of discipline. You don't have someone telling you what to do. So you need to learn to be your own boss and be there for your company. It doesn't matter the time or the hour or the day.

And also don't get disappointed when you don't have the results, because, I mean, that's something expected. If you are very lucky, you probably will have the bad results, but I think that's really important. You need to learn that it's on the way. You need to overcome those kinds of problems and to find a way. You have a goal to try to go to the goal. Maybe the pathway would be a little different from what you were thinking at the beginning, but if you have a goal, you find a way. So I think that's really important too, and I have seen that when helping my friends and different people, that is, in different businesses. That's really important, because sometimes we give up before like trying enough. So I think that's also a good advice.

:: 19:23

Very helpful advice, especially people that are getting started. I know that anything around vertical farming, small farms, even microgreens is getting a lot of attention and I think people need to have a realistic expectation of what's involved and how much work it is and what the challenges are, and I think the more research people do, the better off it'll be. Do you see a change in the people in Mexico in terms of entrepreneurism? I know, obviously, coming from the States, it's very big, like everyone's an entrepreneur, but do you see that changing in Mexico, where more and more people are taking an interest in starting their own business and starting their own farms?

:: 19:57

a lot because I think the new generations, they now think a little bit different.

:: 20:01

Yeah.

:: 20:02

So right now we have a lot and I have seen that through the years like working with the students. I teach her courses, so I get to know people at the university. So right now a lot of people they want to have their own business. And before we were like in the setup, like I'm going to finish and find a job. So now I think we'll say at least 30% of the classroom will say I want to start my own business and I don't want to find a job, I mean on the way. Obviously you sometimes need to work, but that is really different from before. I mean, even myself, as I told you, I didn't think that to have my own business when I was studying. So, yeah, I think people is starting to think differently. Also, sometimes people want to have like very things in a very easy way. And the new generations that's also something that I have seen, but they will know in certain point that things are not that easy, but at least it's good that they have now you know, this ambition of having their own business.

:: 21:07

Yeah, you definitely need that work ethic. You have to be able to roll up your sleeves and work long days in the beginning and realize that sometimes you're the only person, especially as a business owner. That some of the challenges sometimes to realize that when you come up with problems there's no one going to come to save you. You have to figure it out on yourself.

:: 21:27

Yeah, and no one is going to show you luck, so you have to show yourself.

:: 21:31

Yeah, self-motivate. So I'm curious and your time at Horde America is when did you start to see more interests specifically in vertical farming? As you said, it's obviously controlled environment, agriculture and obviously there's a lot of years and things you've been reporting on from the greenhouse perspective and I'm curious if you started to notice a shift at some point where obviously, like now, a lot of people are talking about vertical farming specifically. And I'm curious, from your perspective, what you started seeing from your time at Horde America.

:: 22:02

So for United States it's kind of it's not like a trend, because sometimes we have these big companies that are not doing well, so people start to think bad about vertical farming. But then we have people that is interested, this kind of moving in different ways. But here in Mexico it's like it's very, very strong movement to increase an interest in vertical farming. I think it's from like one year from now, like one year and a half, a lot of different people. It's a reaching house now with bigger ambition.

At the beginning it was like just small farmers, like doing microgreens or lettuce, but in very small facilities. But now we have like investors and so that's different from the past year probably. So we find people more interested like one year and a half, like in general, but one year from now we have people like investors, like bigger projects. So here we had that trend like people is increasing the interest in vertical farming and in United States, at least from what I can see on the industry working with Horde America, it's kind of I wouldn't say it doesn't move a lot, but still it's a lot of people. I mean a lot of people is interested in vertical farming.

:: 23:32

And so I'm curious thanks to Jessica for introducing us as well and she talked a little bit about the community that's being created and because it's so it's smaller in Mexico. I think she mentioned you have a WhatsApp group and I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about how that's been helpful to have. You know at least the people that are interested in vertical farming or CEA in Mexico have a place where you can, you know, talk ideas and talk together.

:: 23:57

Yeah, so we don't have a lot of people we've experienced on vertical farming, so I'm one of the persons that people care of, rich if they want to learn about the use of lighting, so I have to delete on that. I want to connect all the people that is doing work on vertical farming. So I'm the one that's creating the WhatsApp groups because I really want them to know that we are not competition right now, because I mean, we're just few and we need to push this topic, like all together.

So, that's why I always speak with the biggest companies that we have right now in vertical farming and I try to connect them with the other people and try to connect them also with people in United States that I know can be helpful for them. So that, I think, is my purpose right now, when I was telling you that I wanted to come back and do something for my hometown. Right now I think I'm doing for the country and also Latin America, some people from other countries in Latin America.

:: 24:57

So the group is actually not just Mexico. It's other people in Spanish speaking countries who are interested as well.

:: 25:04

Yeah, I mean, we have people from Puerto Rico, costa Rica, perú and what else in Chile.

:: 25:14

And I think it's interesting with those. A lot of those places are traditionally people think they have maybe the perfect climate. You think about Puerto Rico and you think about Chile and it's like it's always sunny, like why do they even need to think about like vertical farming? But I think, with the changes in climate and not having the consistency of you know what you need if you want to grow crops year round, I think is that some of the conversations you're seeing or hearing, or the people, or the challenges people are facing.

:: 25:41

Yes, and from people in Latin America, I mean outside of Mexico. We speak a lot about problems related with drought. So I think right now people is worried about that situation and that's why they are thinking this kind of business, not only vertical farming, but also hydroponics.

:: 26:00

And what are you seeing, or in terms of the conversations, or where are you seeing the most promise for opportunities? Do you see it's really partnerships with bigger companies? Obviously, you've got a lot of people with experience from Europe and Holland with the greenhouses and companies that are having some success in the states as well. So, for the potential for vertical farming within Latin American countries, where do you see the potential there? Is it partnerships or is it just learning what's working and what's not to make better decisions?

:: 26:31

I think it would be both. It would be good to have partnerships with people that is doing way better than us and to get to learn more. So every city is different, so I think it's important also to get to know how the business is going in different places. But if we can learn from someone else, partnership with something bigger than us, that's also helpful.

:: 26:54

So where do you see, as you think about the potential and what you're? Because you're at Horde America, as I imagine you have a front row seat to see what's happening in this industry and the changes that are happening, and I'm sure there's a lot of reporting that you have access to so you can see where everything is moving. So what's your take on what's happening with some of the recent closings, restructurings? Obviously, those are the things that make a lot of news, right when you hear of companies shutting down or shutting down operations, but when you think about the bigger picture and the potential for vertical farming, I'm curious about what your perspective is.

:: 27:28

I think vertical farming is very helpful, but we need to evaluate the projects in advance, which is the advice that I provided before, because some of the projects are very big and very ambitious and we don't have at that time, within a time, like a history on how to do business with that kind of company, very big. So that's why we have seen some companies that didn't develop in the best way. But I think that is not because the vertical farm is not working. It's because the way the projects are developed and I think one advice would be like to start with a small or medium size and you can learn in the way and get bigger, because it could be kind of risky if you don't know the business, if you don't know, just as I mentioned, every city is different, so you need to study that with this new technology and I think the best way to do it is from a small to bigger size.

:: 28:27

And so, as you think about what's next for you in terms of what you're developing, what I noticed and I hear a lot in this conversation is this idea of teaching and teaching and showing and teaching. Is that something that's always been important for you? To just you know, I feel like you have this need or this passion for teaching other people how to learn these things and how to farm.

:: 28:47

Yes, for me this is a kind of passion, not only teaching. I like to teach with a purpose, that people can get tools for doing things that they want. So, yeah, I think on the way, I want to find different ways to help people to start their own business. I think that's kind of the thing that I like the most. As I mentioned, I even help people that doesn't work on their core to culture business. So I think that's my passion is to like to try to leave a print other people so they can overcome problems and be successful on things that can make them happy.

:: 29:26

Is that something that you learned from your family, or is that where I'm curious where that drive comes from?

:: 29:33

So I think people will say I had been this way like forever. But my grandmother she was like you know, like three. She paid a lot of attention to people and I spent a lot of my childhood with her. So I think I learned that from here like to pay attention and provide advice and science. I was like very little and I grew this way and now that I have knowledge, now I'm directing my knowledge into the area of vertical chairs.

:: 30:04

So I'm thinking about all the things that you're working on. You've got your business and the support you provide at Hort America as well. So what is like a typical day look like for you in terms of you know all the things that you have on your plate?

:: 30:16

Yeah, so I can tell you, like from before, when I started, I was teaching short courses for a company and also starting my own business and being technical service.

So I divide my day in the morning I was working for that company, like to get the registrations for the short courses. From noon, like to I will say like five PM, I will work for micro-reins, which is my company, micro-reins FLN, and the rest of the day until 11 PM I was working as technical service. So that was before and now that I have, you know, a team here, people that is helping me for micro-reins FLN, I don't manage the company right now. I have someone helping me with that. So right now I work like from kind of six AM to, I will say, six PM and I really want to start like very early to evaluate the things that I need to do all within the day, otherwise I cannot make everything function. So I need to make a list what we need to do for micro-reins, what we need to do for Hort America as Mexico, and also anything that should be done for America as United States. So yeah, it's a lot of work but I really enjoy my job.

:: 31:34

Yeah, sounds like you definitely have a full day.

:: 31:36

Yeah, yeah.

:: 31:39

So do you make it out to conferences at all as well?

:: 31:42

Yeah, we typically try to go at least two or three conferences. We now get a lot of invitations and planning to be in two weeks in a North Carolina for the Vegetable Gores Association, so I'm speaking there three different talks. So now we get that kind of invitations but we also look for conferences. We also got invited to Indoor Icon for next year. I will be in a panel of how to manage different variables inside of that plant factory and yeah, I really enjoy that too To get to know new people and then connect with different companies and also faculty members.

:: 32:22

Yeah, this year's I mean next year's Indoor Icon looks like it's going to be even bigger than the last two and the sponsor of the show, so we've got a great partnership with them. So we'll get to meet in Las Vegas and nice to meet in person. So it's always fun, because I think what's interesting about there is to for me personally, obviously to meet guests and sometimes get new guests as well, because I'm always meeting new people there. But I think it's also so much more interesting to have a slower conversation with people there and get to find out what's working for them in their farms. And then you have different companies talking to each other and meeting each other, and I think the beauty of the conferences is that you can really get a feel for what's happening in the industry by talking to the people that are there, and more so than just by watching on social media or just looking at the websites. I think there's something special about being able to see the technologies in person and have the conversations with the people that are making these changes.

:: 33:16

Yeah, I mean you get to have great conversations. In my case, I also was part of the panel last year, so after the panels usually people will read you and you know you get to learn about what they are doing and the struggles and everything. So yeah, I think it's always good to go to conferences and learn from other people.

:: 33:37

So, with all the things that you have on your plate, one of the questions I like to ask. This may require a little bit of thought, but what's a tough question that you've had to ask yourself recently?

:: 33:49

Tough question related to horticulture.

:: 33:51

Just in general, with everything that you have on your plate.

:: 33:55

When I'm having children.

:: 33:59

That's an important one.

:: 34:01

Yeah, just kidding. It's on the plan too, but a difficult question.

:: 34:06

Well, it's interesting because what you said there it speaks to this idea of what people call work-life balance Right and prioritizing what's important, and my partner and I are trying for a child as well. So you have to think about as much as you have passions that are related to what you do on the day to day. We also have families and we also have to balance those because we don't want to make it seem like one is out of proportion with the other. So is that something that you think about, like this balance of am I?

:: 34:36

giving too much and am.

:: 34:38

I overdoing it.

:: 34:39

And I like to plan. I mean, I'm obsessed with planning stuff, so I've been planning this like from years. For example, my husband, he's a doctor, so he was studying.

You know, doctors, the time in school is very long, so when he was still doing his specialization in anesthesia. That's what. When I used to work a lot, he was in other city and I was like this is the time that I have like to work, you know. And now I try to end my job at 6 pm and something of like 7 pm, but after that I try to be free and also in the morning I wake up really early so I can also have time for myself and also to exercise, which is also really important.

You need to have a balance with that too, so I think you need to plan in advance, because sometimes when you start a business in a point, it's going to demand a lot of time. So, for example, if you are having children, you need to plan in advance. Okay, I will take this time to work a lot, but after this time I will plan how to do things differently so I can have more time, or how to adjust everything so you can take your kids to the conference or something like that.

:: 36:02

Take them to the vertical farming conference. But it's interesting because you also want to show by example because I think about that sometimes, like as they grow up you don't want to show the example of someone that's not around or not available or just work, work, work. And I think showing your children that example as early as possible, because they remember everything you know, they remember everything they see as a child and I think about myself as when I was little as well.

:: 36:26

Yeah, I think that's a lot of responsibility, so you need to really for me at least, I really need to plan that so I could be a good mother and also to go well in business. Otherwise things cannot work together.

:: 36:42

That makes a lot of sense. So, as we finish and close this conversation, I've been leaving a little bit of space. This podcast is listened to by a lot of CEOs and founders of vertical farming companies, so I'm curious about if you have a message to the vertical farming industry. Given everything that's been happening the ups and the downs and you have a unique perspective from the time you have at Horde Americas what guidance do you have or any words that you have for the leaders that are in vertical farming right now?

:: 37:11

So I will say to be ambitious on your ideas and your objectives and try to structure your business in that way. Vertical farm does have to have all the technology at the beginning. So if you're ambitious, that's fine, but try to focus on how to structure your business and how to make that work from small size. Now that you know how everything is working, do a good investment in something that is beer and the small size you need to do a good investment too. You know the lamps and things that will make everything work better. Your capex is always important so you can reduce your operational expenses. So think about that like how your investment at the beginning is going to help you to reduce the operational expenses that you will have later. And starting with a medium or small size, I think it will be good and once you test that and approve, then you can move forward.

:: 38:17

And I'm sure if anyone, if the listener has questions, they'll be able to reach out for you specifically if you want to learn more. I'm sure you have a lot of guidance you can provide as well, Sure sure.

So, carl, thank you so much for taking the time. It was really interesting to get a take of what's happening in Mexico specifically, but also from your experience. You've got a lot of experience with everything that you've been learning at Hort America, so I appreciate you coming on and sharing a little bit of your story as well with our listener.

:: 38:44

No, thanks for the invitation. It was fun. So if people want to learn more and connect with you.

:: 38:49

Where's the best place to send them?

:: 38:51

You can find my contact in the Fort America's website and I'll tell you I'm in Instagram.

:: 38:56

Professor.

:: 38:57

Role. You can also find it there, and I think that's it.

:: 39:01

Okay.

:: 39:02

But there's always a place to reach me. You can also just leave comments in the YouTube channel that we have now. We'll also get those Okay.

:: 39:10

If I didn't get those from you when we signed up or when you signed up for this call, then just make sure to send me that If you want to email me those links, and I'll make sure we put them in the show notes and then we have them available when this episode goes live. Perfect.

:: 39:22

Yeah, I will share those with you.

:: 39:23

Okay, thanks again. I really appreciate it.

:: 39:26

No, thank you, Thank you.